That is the reason I think that noble should be given one more year, although it is looking more and more unlikely that it will happen.

Don't EVER accuse me of being NICE!!!

To be honest Rogues (And certain posters will not believe me here!) I am not sure that Noble should be given another year as TBH if he does only want 1 more year then we would only have to go through this again! GOD FORBID!

If the right man in the eyes of IL is available now then I would go for him.

MY MAIN POINT

Is that I don't and didn't belive that sacking a coach Mid way through the season would achieve anything Long Term especially as it didn't seem like we had a replacement immediately available to step in!

I don't think there is a Majority (In fact I would say maybe a 3rd or less) who given a choice between Noble Staying or going would choose for him to stay.

However

I can't believe that some can't understand that defending Noble's record over the last 3 x seasons isn't the same as saying give him another contract for the next 2 x years as he's the best thing since sliced bread!

I think that Most believe that BN is/was an important Stepping stone on the road back to Major success, without him the club would/could have been weaker.

Is he the right man to do the next 3 years, probably not, but would the man who is going to do the next 3 years have been the right man to do what Noble has done over the last 3 years???

I think Noble was the steady, calming, honourable or whatever you want to call it influence that this club needed at that time and sticking with him for the length of his contract was/is the right thing to do.

I don't like However the way that some of those who did want him sacked or don't want him to stay attacked him and in a lot of instances found fault for finding fault's sake purely to try and ridicule the club into making a rash decision in an attempt to achieve short term success.

Well we could try the Hull route.



Seriously, as the IF thread shows we have missed so many opportunities early season.

However, how much of it was Nobles fault.
Roberts dropped ball, at Hull along with Gouldings two errors of judgment.
The deaf referee v HKR.

Ainscough not passing the ball inside v Cas, or not going closer to the posts.

Hock and Ainscough letting the ball go into touch from the kick off v Saints and Saints scoring in the next two sets (one a repeat).
Hocks disallowed try in the same game.


All incidents which could have turned the game, and in effect our season.

I accept that Noble must take ultimate responsibility, but apart from Quins away I don't think we have had much luck.

Fully agree with everything you've said here. Great post.

win a few games noble is best thing since butter pies

lose a few and the true wiganer comes out

stop moaning and stick with what you have.....

Have healthy, reasoned debate, and a true prat comes out.

And look who it is ... again.

How's that £60 million + debt coming along?

I'd concentrate on the issues at your own club.

When are you being relocated to another town where you will get Premier League attendances?

You can see the FA's reaction when it happens - "thank fook for that!"

No it did not. Once Mo, Jack Robinson, Tom Rathbone and Jack Hilton assumed control with Mo as Chairman success was rapid and consistent.

Prior to that momentous event before those four assumed control the club was run by a large committee and it was the one huge step that those four took which placed Mo at the helm. That wasn't a small step but a huge one and once taken success came very quickly.



There are absolutely no parallels in the way Mo chose who coached Wigan or who got signed and what has happened with Noble and the squad.



Mo and the other three members of the gang of four staged their board room coup in 1982. Wigan won its first trophy in 12 years one year later in 1983, the John Player Trophy. In 1984 the club got to Wembley and got beaten by Widnes but returned in 1985 to win it in the epic game v Hull.

We won the championship in 1986 that is four years after Mo assumed the reigns not eight and the world club challenge the next year.

So once in control of the club it took him one year to win a trophy, three years to win the CC not six and four years not eight to win the league.

The way he dealt with coaching appointments from 1982 onwards is well known with few coaches lasting any great length of time (not all sacked for those who assume they were) until Monie arrived.

Your take on the clubs history is wildly inaccurate.

Dave

We signed two players and Rads came out of retirement (for free). We also didn't smash the salary cap. We only paid out up to the the salary cap.

To do that some players wages were deferred, which is a practice allowed in the NRL and it was only the RFL's reaction to the outcry from Cas and others that assumed we had spent more than the cap that got the RFL to decide it wasn't in the spirit of the cap IMO.

It was basically the same team plus two signings and Rads with his dodgy legs not a massive overhaul of the squad.

Dave

2 pivotal members of the squad were added, best kicker in the leage and the best prop in the world at the time.

We did smash the cap as we had players come in that we couldnt afford.

We off loaded players and deferred wages to other players that year. And we did not smash the cap at all we payed to the maximum with renegotiated wages. The RFL fined us and deducted us points because the said it was not in the spirit of the cap which was the biggest load of rubbish to come from the RFL for years. Others that year broke the cap by small amounts and got away with it.

The only thing we did wrong that year, IMO, was take too much of a gamble. Mo perhaps should have realised that the small-minded barstewards at the RFL would have come after us, especially when it had ensured our survival.

But 'breaking the spirit of the cap' - when payments made overseas, images rights, etc, wasn't!!! - absolutely farcical.

Just reading this article in the Sun and I noticed the only quote I've seen from Noble regarding the current rumours.

"What will be, will be," shrugged the former Great Britain chief yesterday.

Sounds to me as though he's been told he's going.

[urlhttp://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby/2009/09/04/st-helens-star-sean-long-can-t-close-his-eye-after-jaw-operation-115875-21646580/[/url

I can't see him at Celtic, the lack of a squad or money to build one seems an odd challenge for him when the Hull job could be available soon.

The year Fielden & Dobson came in we did not break the salary cap.
The RFL confirmed that we didn't spend over the cap limit and didn't break the salary cap.
Wigan were deducted points for breaking "the spirit" of the salary cap.
Although of course there was no such phrase or sanction in SC rules.
As usual the RFL were making it up as they went along!
Pity they couldn't throw HullFC out of the Cup when they fielded an ineligible player, not once but twice.
The difference was the RFL were scared that if they did HullFC would have taken them to court as there was nothing in the rule books to say they should be thrown out. So the RFL bottled it!
We owe HullFC a debt of gratitude by showing the way to beat the RFL, threaten them with the law when they break their own rules.
Pity DW and Mo didn't threaten them with the courts.

If they did though, they would have ruled that the SC is illegal, which it is, and then RL would be in tatters, as like it or loathe it, without the SC, we would have clubs going out of business on a regular basis, as we simply do not earn enough revenue as a sport.

However that a argument for a different day.

Exactly. It would be ruled illegal, as will Chelseas signing ban in football.

They are both good for there respective sports though dont you think?

Im not a fan of the cap in its current form, however i do believe we need one as a sport, as if we hadnt and dave and mo had ploughed millions in to get the top players in, what would have happend if and when they walked away.

I realise its an immotive subject, but I think a SC is good for Rugby, just think it needs updating is all.

Said before it needs to be 2.5m a year or 50% of last years turn over if the club has not got a 5m turnover. This would also encourage clubs to market themselves better which of course would promote the game more. Thing is the RFL cannot see this same with the Championship it needs a 1.4m cap or 50% of turnover you would then get a better more marketable second tier comp that could have the TV rights sold to Eurosport or ESPN.

yes, the cap is a good idea, but not in its current form.

The value of £ to be spent needs upping or I would prefer a 50% of turnover cap, which seeks to reward clubs who build fan bases etc, not handicap Wigan to the likes of Quins.

Mo and the other three taking control was as significant an event in the clubs history if not more so than IL taking over from DW and Mo. Before that it was committee run club and after 1982 Mo & Co had the freedom to act.
It was a watershed and to imply as your original post did that Mo was running the club 6 years before we won the CC and 8 before the championship is just misleading.

Yes you did. The bit you have missed off from the above is “There are many other parallels but in essence the stories the same.” How is the story the same when from 1982 Mo appointed Murphy, replaced him with Clarke and McInnes after just over two years who then won the cup? I see no parallels or similar story in the recent history of Wigan.



But it did exist! It was also an important trophy and was the first trophy we won for 12 years. That is an important point because it means Mo didn’t take as long as you imply to bring what people considered success to the club.

Mo wasn’t in charge in 80/81 and we had two coaches appointed after 1982 before we won the cup so I am not ignoring the fact you are right because you are wrong. Bamford resigned in 1982. Murphy was appointed by Mo in 1982, was with the club for just over two years and was replaced by the Clarke/McInnes duo who brought us the cup. That is two coaching appointments from the time he took over unless you are trying to suggest Clarke and McInnes were separate appointments, which I am pretty sure you are not.


Sorry, the 86/87 season.
In 85/86 we won the Regal Trophy again and the Lancashire cup.

As I said it was a watershed moment when those four took over and everyone accepts that from that point on Mo was the driving force behind Wigan. Suggesting he was running it as influentially as post 1982 pre 1982 is just pure spin. What is also significant is that there was success before the club won the CC in 1985 and in between then and winning the championship in 86/87 season.

The cub only went full time in 91/92 so what has got to do with the period in question I do not know. As to the SC the way some go on you would think it only affected Wigan and when Mo & Co took control in 1982 we were not long out of the 2nd division having played in front of crowds of 8500. IL took over a Super League club containing several international players with top facilities and supposedly a top coach already in place. He has not had to make the club attractive to a coach the calibre of Lowe because we were already a top flight club with excellent training facilities, ground a large supporter base.


He wasn’t in charge as your previous post implied and he brought success within 12 months of him and the other three gaining control. We also started to sign top local players as opposed to letting other teams nick them from under our noses with Edwards being the first big step in that direction. This sort of thing did not happen in the committee years prior to 1982.

Why do you think it was easy the first time?


Not correct. Noble has been here longer than either. Murphy was here just over two years, Clarke and Mcinnes just less than two. Noble has been here about 3 and half years already and is the longest serving coach post 1982 apart from Monie in his first stint.

The point is your take on history and what went on back then having parallels to the situation now or a similar story is fanciful.

You miss out significant bits of information because it suits your argument you mean.

If you have not seen one you aren’t looking very hard.


Get real? Why do I need to “get real” about a stance YOU have decided I hold? You are putting words into my mouth again so you can disagree with me!


If they continue at this rate it will be another three years before we are a regular top four side.
When we won the Regal Trophy’s and Lancashire cup between 1982 and 87 these represented tangible bits of progress along the way to those CC and Championship wins. We don’t have those trophies now of course to measure progress but in my opinion we have not made anything like that sort of progress toward success in the major competitions in recent years compared to what happened after 1982.
Who is most responsible for this lack of progress? IMO mostly Noble as he is the one who’s team shows little improvement from 2007 to now. Is IL blameless since he has only been here for 20 months? Not IMO because he has made mistakes as well in terms of signings. Has he got everything wrong which you seem to think is my view? Of course not but I can point to several issues plenty of people agree he has not got right.

Dave

It was a pity as IMO it was a matter of principle worth sticking up for. The reason they did not was because by the time any case would have been heard it would have been too late to affect the competition. The club would have had to play under the imposition of the penalties and the league positons would have been decided.

They were also about to sell up to IL and so perhaps it was right to forgo sticking to their guns so as not to lumber him with a court case against the RFL.

Dave

Its performances like last night that will be as responsible for Noble going as any defeat to the likes of Celtic.

Hull were there for the taking and we once again made it hard for ourselves.