I said a few posts earlier that it's especially important to call the refs out after such a big win. It then can't be brushed away as sour grapes, or a dummy spit after a continuous loss. Instead it's highlighting, what I believe, is the biggest issue in our sport. The refs and judiciary are absolute t0ssers.

I'm already seeing our so called lack of "discipline" being used a stick to beat the club with. The Wigan Today jouro (McAllister?) included it within an article on things we need to work on. How can you work on the Mago no try? How can you work on not being square, when in fact you actually are? How can you work on not giving a pen away in the tackle when the opposition has a second player in the ruck and he's on top of you?

Every week of this season they've dropped the ball in some kind of way. People will say that it evens itself out & it probably has with the WCC. Is that right tho? Is it really something that we should just accept?

I considered just going having a beer behind the stand in the first half because I couldn't be bothered watching him anymore.

One thing I will say though, is that every ref has battered us so far, so we probably need to do better ourselves. We're right up near the top of the penalties conceded table yet we've played a game less. I think we're averaging about 10 per game and that is far too high, even if the refs are in that mode of testing out the new whistles they got for Christmas.

It at least goes against the old line that the best teams get all the calls. It's worlds away from the days of Leeds conceding a couple of penalties a game and the refs apologising to Peacock and Sinfield when handing them out.

I find it a bit suspicious that while we seem to have worked on tackling technique, trying to bring our shots down onto the body rather than up around the shoulders, we are suddenly getting pinged for lots of technicals. I'm not saying that referees are bent, but some of them just can't seem to let the game flow.

There are certain things that really need to change. The levelling up of penalty counts, etc. If a referee wants to know what the penalty count is, he should keep it himself ... and not ask for it from some stats man. Why does he even to know? If he's doing his job properly, it's irrelevant what the penalty count is.

We do need to be better, I agree. Whatever the reason, you don't want to be hanging around the top end of the table for pens conceded at any time. It's hard to be too critical though as there's been so much inconsistency in the reffing that it must be hard to earmark and correct areas when they're not a penalty one week, then are the next. Someone else has mentioned Dupree actually asking the ref for help on what he needed to do to not concede a penalty and where exactly he should stand not to be penalised. The ref didn't seem to offer any assistance which makes it doubly bad.

When you're being penalised for playing the ball correctly or standing square (the ref seemed unable to tell the difference between not square and peering round first marker so you can see the play the ball!) how are you supposed to correct that? Play the ball even more correctly? Line your head and arms with the first marker so you only create a single outline? It's absolutely barmy!

Incidentally, isn't it interesting that no one deems it worthy of note that the ref sent an obvious 'no try' up as 'try' and the video ref was unable to find sufficient evidence to overturn it. Was it because it went against us rather than for us? Or the Mago try being ruled out without it even being referred to the video ref!

It's the what I call situational pens that drive me nuts. Perfect example is a markers not square type pen. There was one Vs Hudds where our guys were both slightly over to the short side and Hudds went open. It was an obvious disadvantage to us, but he still give the pen. The situation had no impact on either, Hudds ability to attack, or the wider flow of the game. It was just a moronic, binary decisions with no feel/thinking for the game, or anyone else apart from his own box ticking exercise.

People wanting to watch a game of rugby break out? F them, we've got pens to give. People supporting their team and wanting to see fair decisions (Mago no try)? F them, it's more important the ref backs himself than making a right call.

In every sense of the word, they really are pathetic.

Whilst agreeing with some of your points and often get frustrated (certain markers not square decisions are frustrating this year as certain times players are caught not square when trying to get back to marker, where they'd be better just lying in the ruck and not being penalised), I'll be honest, some of your Rhetoric and use of language towards the officials has been for a couple of years and continues to be, pretty crap if I'm honest

Without going into detail, every coach speaks/reviews issues with the refereeing department virtually every week
A lot of the application of the rules comes.from feedback from coaches etc, but they will also continue to push/find other ways to circumvent those same rules and the application of them

I won't be getting involved in a back and forth as it's pretty clear your NEVER GOING TO BE HAPPY with anything relating to officials

But I can assure you they are right a very very very high % of the time
They apply laws and applications of the rules a very very high % of the time
And they do work with coaches/players/clubs etc and feedback is given both ways weekly.

To make certain assumptions and use language like "Moronic" is poor
Your Hudds example, players not standing square "Could" affect which way teams play and feedback has been given that teams were pushing one way at marker to encourage teams to play one way is an example
It's irrelevant which way the dummy half plays after the markers are not square, they may have played that way due to markers not being square
However this was done after consultation with coaches etc.
They are applying the law in place and application of it in consultation

Referee's and officials will always be blamed, I just think some of the language surrounding it needs to be tempered a bit.

Each to their own if you want to defend them.

Personally I can't stand them or the way they go about things. I saw an oldish video doing the rounds the other day of a Newcastle Knights skipper telling the ref he'd got it wrong and "had cost them the game". The ref saw his ar$e over it as, obviously the player isn't allowed an opinion. Thou shall not tell the truth to the ref. It might hurt his feelings.

Half the stuff I'd actually like to write about the refs wouldn't get through the filters on here. I just pray that one day we (as in the sport in the UK ) grows a backbone when it comes to them. It was refreshing to see Moore get the brunt of the Aussie media post the WCC, even tho wigan benefited from it on the night.

What would you do to improve matters in the short/medium/long term?

Without the refs we have no game,they make mistakes,players make mistakes,we all do.

Spot on

That's not really an argument though, is it?

"Without the players..."
"Without the fans..."
"Without the owners..."

Just because we need them in order to play the game (just like we need the others to play/finance it), doesn't excuse the fact that we really need GOOD ones - After all, they're supposed to be professionals.

In recent years, it just feels as though they've been forced to rush through a good number of poorly prepared referees, just to make up the numbers for those leaving/retiring & to now provide Video Refs for every game.

Didnt realise it was an argument I was just stating a fact.
The players are professionals and they also get things wrong also another fact.

More facts...

The players also get graded (certainly in Wigan Today) for their performance out of 10. They get built up, knocked down, dropped etc. Look at the analysis/chatter on Snyed's short kick off. People are happy to knock him and then, in the same breath, tell you to lay off the ref as "everyone makes mistakes". It's hypocrisy at best. At worst it's robotic RL thinking that the ref is some kind of god, not to be questioned.

You're absolutely spot on.

And when a player gets something wrong, what's the first thing he generally does?... He apologises to his team-mates.

How often do referees apologise for anything?

And this isn't only on the individual referees - Most of the current crop just seem to be robotically applying the most inane of the rules right now, which has to have come from higher up.
But also, maybe some/a lot are just too inexperienced/unsure of themselves to stand up and question either whether it is correct to do so, or more importantly, whether the rule should be applied in that way (e.g. Defenders stand square, attacker takes a step to the side, the defenders are penalised for not being square at the PTB, just as an example)?

Ok what can we do to have better refs,I for one don't know maybe you could inform the refs where they are going wrong.
Refs have also been demoted aswell that my friend is also a fact.

As pointed out I dont know the answer so what can we do to improve the standard of the refs,maybe if more people apply to become a ref then the pool would be bigger for choice and quality.
And no II wont apply because it is very difficult to be a ref as in every game 50% think you are wrong and 50% think you are a cheat . Good luck to them I say.

This is such a good point and probably forms 90% of my frustrations with refs.

Like you said, a player makes a mistake and 90% of the time, say sorry. If they didn't, then it would be heavily frowned up. Blaming others and not owning up to your own mistakes is a big no no for most teams.

Use Mago no try as a perfect example. The ref got it wrong, simple as that. Instead of owning it and going to the screen, he doubles down on a bad decision. Quite simply it's wrong and is, imo, a massive FU to everyone else in that ground & watching at home. To them, they are the most important person in that game.

Back to Thompson I wonder if it's worth playing him on Friday, the slap on the wrist is on his record now and it'll be gutting if he misses GF with a one match ban over a grade A/B offence

I'd leave him out along with a few other lads. I know there is an argument for us needing to get some momentum going, with our first choice team but I've absolutely zero worries in terms of why we have been off our best in large parts of the league campaign so far. We've clearly put an awful lot of focus and energy in to that Penrith game and we're just doing enough currently to get the wins. I expect we'll see a totally different energy about the side at Saints on Good Friday and I don't think a game against Sheffield will impact that in any way. I'd just keep the risks of injuries and suspensions to a minimum on Friday.

Id be inclined to play Douglas, Eckersley, Farrimond, Hampshire and Nsemba for the full 80 this week

Agree,

Hampshire
Douglas
Keighran
Eckersley
Marshall
French
Farrimond
Byrne
Leeming
Dupree
Nsemba
Isa
Ellis

Mago
Hill
Forber
Chan

Resting Wardle, Miski, Field, Thompson, Farrell, O’Neill, Smith

Although I think Peet will go for a much stronger team given the poor performance last week

I’d go with exactly that.

I think we'll see a full strength team. I just get the impression Peet wasn't all that impressed with 'key players' as he put it. It's a risky strategy in this day and age with potential HIAs and bans but I feel we'll look to build some fluidity as we looked underdone v Salford.

I despair at some of the people on here.

No idea how you manage to watch games every week.

It's always the people you most expect too.

And yes, I worship Chris Kendall as a god. He's biased, not you, and I love it.