True, but it was as much down to the pack not playing to their usual high standards, especially defensively. Hoffman, in particular, was dreadful, after being superb for all the previous games. We did miss Fielden, Lima and Farrell, but the guys out there would usually be more than capable.

Yes actually I would. Only a few years back people were saying the same about Goulding, he was a centre who wasn't up to it, he then went on loan to Salford, they played him as a winger, and the rest is history.
Goulding was scoring tries last season due to having a top centre as his partner, without that he's average at best.
He's weak under the high ball and not that quick.

Compare him to Marsh, Marsh is bigger faster stronger better under the high ball.

I don't like the mentality of 'well he's not done much wrong so lets stick with him' when in reality we could be stronger down his side.

We just lack bite and aggression, at times I think we're almost bullied by a 'harder pack'. I feel thats how wire have the beating of us. Against Hudds wire were under the cosh as their pack was as equally if not more aggressive.

We need more grunt, big hits and legal aggressive behaviour from our entire pack.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the team selections, it's just a matter of getting them to perform as a unit. They seem lethargic in both defence and attack, right across the team. Them first 20 minutes they need to be smashing into teams just like we did last year! They seem cautious as if there scared of getting injured. We need that ruthless mentality back and QUICK!

I think most of us are in agreement that things arent quite working at the mo. If you were Madge, what changes would you make?

I think there have been a lot of "distractions" so far this season from the World Club Challenge and the Gleeson saga to Hock's return. We've also had a lot of injuries/suspensions to key players which hasnt helped us to have a settled squad.

If I was Madge I'd look to moving Joel to centre permenantly. He's strong, fast, he can score tries and is also a good defender.

I'd also bring Amos back in at full back and move Sam back to stand off. Sam's a great attacking full back but his positional play and, at times, his defence is somewhat shaky. I think he has the potential and talent to be the best stand off the club has had since Edwards.

Amos looked good in attack against Hudds and I think he just needs a couple of games under his belt to settle himself and restore his confidence. How awesome would it be to have the Amos of last season back??

We need to restore some stability in the team. We dont have a "starting 13" this season and I'm not sure we've ever put the same team out twice for one reason or another. I know its difficult with injuries but I think making too many changes too often is too distracting for the players.

Finally, I'd have to drop Finch to the U20's. I'm not sure if he's still carrying an injury and if he is, then it would explain to a degree why he was actually shirking out of tackles on Friday night! I have never, in all my years of watching rugby league seen anything like it!! He looked like he didnt want to get involved and his contribution to the game was a bit of arm waving! Disgraceful! If he is injured, then he shouldnt be playing anyway! The sooner we get Deacs back the better. We've really missed his kicking and organisational skills.

To end on a positive note, it was great to see Pat back. His kicking game alone will ease some pressure on us.

Thoughts, everyone?

Me too Brian !!!

FB 19 Roberts
RW 25 Charnley
RC 12 Joel
LC 4 Carmont
LW 5 Richards
SO 1 Sam
SH 7 Leuluai
P 14 Prescott
H 9 McIlorum
P 10 Coley
SR 16 Hoffman
SR 22 Farrell
LF 13 O'Loughlin

S 11 Hansen
S 15 Lima
S 21 Mossop
S 23 Tuson

How did you work that one out?

I've been saying this for ages. I (wrongly) expected Lima to be the enforcer we need, but now when our four frontline props are all fit we have four workhorses, good workhorses but nothing more. We desperately need a Morley type player to provide some biff.

need I go over this again?

at full back Sam gets the ball at 2nd or 3rd reciever at pace so effectively he is playing stand off already. You put Sam at stand off permenantly you run the risk of giving him the ball stood still most of the time and unable to take on the line at pace which is what he does best.

Also Amos is struggling to get a start on the wing so how people expect to see him go well at full back is beyond me.

We scored nearly 30 points despite our complete inability to defend on Friday. Attack is not the issue our defence and pack is what we need to sort out as well as attitude.

Do you actually read what I wrote? The answer appears to be no.

It's quite easy really. Just look at the suggested team posts from fans over the past few weeks, and the majority want Sam at stand off.

I however still think he is better at fullback, but I am in the minority.

I to also like Sam at FB, however for him to be at most effective it means we have to play a certain style of Rugby. The Rugby we played last year with numerous dummy runners and two or three attacking lines running at the defensive line. The problem this year being, the side has been chopping and changing around so much that the players are unable to pull of last years moves because of unfamiliarity with those around them.

Certainly our problems in attack for me, boils down to having an unsettled side. If we can keep the same three quarter line and halfback combination for consecutive weeks, it'll go along way to solving our problems in attack.

Defensively the last few week's have been a blip IMO. We've already shown this year in numerous game that when fully focused we are the best defensive side in the comp. It's just about getting that consistency week in week out, and I've no doubt that'll come when we get a good few wins under our belt.

Too true !

Behind a beaten pack you will always lose. Hell, you don't have to have been watching the game for too many years to work that one out.

Both Wire and Catalans have big packs, and we got beat !

We need muscle in that front row, someone like Andy Platt or especially Kelvin Skerrett in the past. Props often work in pairs much better. Playing with a 'light pack', as we are doing at the moment, will crucify us in the long term.

So as statistically valid as your Brian Noble is the hardest working coach in the game - fact (even though you've no idea how hard other coaches work), i.e. not at all.

So basically you don't know if you're in a minority or not, but just like to pretend you are.

I am in the minority on this one, just look back through the posts on here.
[urlhttp://viewtopic.php?f=28&t=488029[/url

I think the solution is in the structure of the attack.

Here goes for my solution to the Sam as a 1 or 6 debate.

Don't play split halves. Have the plays running through the 7 then onto the 6 as a running second reciever. Here we can ultilise Sam's running game where he joins into the line as he does as a FB.
However, he will have more of a presences as he will always be situated somewhere between the edge players SR and the centres linking up. Similar to Edwards did in his day or Maguire does at Leeds.

With this we could also have a second attacking option outwide if the FB possibly Roberts linked up into the line.
With this set-up it is important to have a ball playing loose. So if needs must they can act as a 1st reciever on the other side to the 7 to offer more options in attack so the plays don't always run through the 7. I think we can achieve this at Wigan with Lockers, he can easily take control as he's proven before when in the halves.

Thoughts?

I can explain this in more detail, as I feel it is a good solution.

And yet using your flawed methodology you are in the majority on this thread, as I'd keep him there as well.

So like I said, you don't know but just like to tell everyone you are.

on Friday I would go with:

Sam
Marsh/Charnley (If Charnley deserved to be dropped for his performance vs FC, Goulding does for his on Friday)
Joel
Carmont
Richards
Finch
Deacon
Prescott
Tommy/McIlorum (I cant decide which would be the best to start)
Coley
Hoffman
Hansen
O'Loughlin

Lima
Tommy/McIlorum
Mossop
Farrell/Tuson Depending on Faz's injury.

When will everyone realise that Maguire isn't going to move Sam back into the halves?! Sam at full back is not the problem with the team at the moment. On Friday, too many players were off their game, and we made too many mistakes - bad passes, dropped balls and missed tackles. That's what we need to work on.

I wouldn't make wholesale changes to the side, as I think that would be counter-productive, but I would tweak things a little. In the backs, Roberts was poor in his last run out, and I think Marsh and Charnley deserve to be ahead of him in the pecking order - I couldn't doubt their effort on Friday. I'm still not convinced that Marsh is a better option than Joel at centre, so I'd maybe drop him to the bench.

In the halves, we've missed Deacon imo, and Finch looks to be trying too hard. I think we need to persevere with Finch, as I'm sure he'll come good, but I'd bring Deacs back in too.

We missed young Farrell too on Friday, so if he's fit, he has to come back in. Hoffman had his worst game in a Wigan shirt against Catalans, so I'd be tempted to give him a week off, and hopefully he'll come back full of vigour against Saints.

So, I'd go with:

Sam
Darrell
Joel
Carmont
Richards
Deacs
Finch
Coley
Leuluai
Prescott
Farrell
Hansen
Lockers

Lima
McIllorum
Mossop
Marsh

thats me telt

to be fair to Rogues theres a lot of folk on this board bleating that Sam should be at 6.

Well let WLA do a poll and then see who is in the minority.

I'll only listen to Sam to 6 from someone who gives me a viable alternative at fullback. And by viable, I mean an in form Roberts. Until Roberts hits some form we have no alternative.

Agreed.

I think were in to much of a mess at present, but later on in the season perhaps Matty Russel may warrant a game at FB for the first team.