Totally disagree, no shock there!



Actually it depends what you look for or how you judge it, on the face of it was a fantastic game and very entertaining and i more than anyone crave that but generally i think the game has come on leaps and bounds although the last few years it has gone backwards. Entertaining games are not always the best quality games.

I do though crave a bit more flair in the modern game, and I have to agree the game in the UK lacks quality entertainers like Kenny who had it all and would be a phenomenon whatever era they play in.

Kenny & Ferguson were awesome in that game, good old days

Don't worry MM is here

Absolutely. We have 17 muscle-bound automatons ploughing their way around the field at full pelt for 80 minutes.

There's not a player with the ability of Hanley, Gregory, Kenny, Sterling, Offiah, Robinson, Dermott, Miles, Bell, Edwards in SL today. Some of those weren't the best in world but they had heart, skill and flair. What some lacked in pure skill & flair, they had in their passion and ability to organise and lift the team. What some lacked in pure power, they had in speed and natural scoring ability. Derms remains THE best ball distributer I've ever seen. I see no-one in today's SL that comes close to these players position for position.

But now we have the scooters.
Roby, Higham etc and decry the craftsmen like Riddell because they LOOK unfit.

Exactly, specialist positions have been removed and a generic back, half back and forward are the norm now. They all pretty much play the same game, just change the name. There's no personalities anymore, no real flair.

I used to love Dermot, he was like an extra half back on the field. He made Edwards and Gregs job easier by either causing confusion from dummy half, or his ability to pass the ball direct from the floor, something most modern hookers fail to do.

No that is wrong on all counts. Riddell not only looks unfit he is unfit as MM has come out and said. It's also wrong because if you think Riddell is a craftsmen you must be going senile

He isn't a scooter that's for sure but neither has he the sublime distribution skills of a player like Dermott. Far to too many times last season his passing was wayward.

Bottom line is that it ought to be time by now for the novelty that he isn't Higham to have worn off and that you judge him for the payer he is, not that he isn't Higham. If you did that then you wouldn't be using words like craftsmen and his name in the same sentence!

Dave

Interesting how you become a critic of distribution now Higham is gone.

Riddell is a craftsman and a very intelligent player, he did not hit the straps last year but was still an improvement on what we had.

MM has said he needs to work on his fitness, but the bit you have missed out is he has also praised him as a player.

I like piggy and I hope he comes good but it's also fair to see why people shoot him down so much.

IF the two teams met tomorrow and the 1985 side was the same age as they was when they won it the 1985 would win anybody agree/disagree ?

Completely disagree. They are nowhere near as fit as the lads are today. The defence would really punish the 85 team and they'd struggle with the physicality of the modern game.

I know weight isn't everything but Brian Case (prop) wasn't as heavy as Lockers. The size of the modern player is a million miles away from where it was 25 years ago.

What about the numbers 1-7 it was a better back line back in 85 u must agree.

Totally disagree, the current team would put a cricket score on them. It would be frightening to see someone like Feka against them even in his spells he would destroy them.

All things being equal training etc you would back the 85 team but put them on a field as they were against a modern SL team they would get smashed.

How about giving the 85 team the same training methods, diets of current SL standards..etc from an early age then putting them on the field together.

For example, would Shaun Edwards, Henderson Gill have been better RL players if they were only mid twenties today? (Forget about their medal wins), just their performances!

Lets not forget 99% of those players in 85 had other full time jobs, smoke, drank, ate the food we (non athletes) do and trained for a few hours a week.

See the second paragraph of the post you quote.

the 85 team had more skill and flair and pace ...no contest they would romp home against the team of now , the team of now are too predictable and lack ideas when in the oppositions 20 yard area.

the 85 team could tire out todays team because they knew how to move the ball around and create chances.
size is not always priority it is your tackling tequnique brian case could knock anyone down.

you are in dreamland. feka would be targated as a weak link and i bet all the tries for the 85 team would come where he was involved...
as a previous post of mine said it is your tackling tequnique which would win the day.

Correct. Look at Graeme West, who at 6'3 towered over everyone. His height is fairly normal for a rugby league player now - he wouldn't stand out as much now as did back then.

WOuldn't make any difference. Any flair that players have now is coached out of them so that they don't make any mistakes. Andy Gregory, for instance, was a magnificent player, but he was a risk taker. If his move went wrong, it could put his side in a vulnerable position.

Then you have the situation where people like him, Henderson Gill and certain others weren't exactly committed trainers. There would be a lot of players from that era who wouldn't make it today purely because of the discipline element.

So you would go from an Andy Gregory who was a gifted playmaker, who made up for his lack of training commitment by having a natural talent, to an Andy Gregory who has had his creativity stifled, and his enthusiasm beaten out of him by regimented training methods. In other words, he'd have got p155ed off and packed the sport in, or he'd never get out of the amateur game.

Many players played then because they loved the game and happened to be good at it, whereas now I get the feeling that they simply view it as their living.

Have you forgotten how Feka was exposed by Tony Smith and Warrington in the cup semi final? The '85 team would have worked him out in five minutes.



There were certain players of that era (not just Wigan players) who were as hard as nails and someone mentioned Brian Case on this thread and I reckon he'd have Feka on his backside time after time.

Many players form that side would not be of place in any side now such as Ferguson, Gill, Kenny and others. The two wingers are better than any running round in the game at the moment IMO.

Dave

Typo corrected etc.

Feka's good at bulldozing through defences when our side is on top. People like Brian Case and Shaun Wane were proper hard grafters who would drive the ball in and tackle all day long.

I still maintain that Case, Kiss and Wane were the best front row we ever had, and that includes the Platt/Dermott/Skerrett era. I've not a clue why those three didn't play for GB more than they ever did.

I seriously doubt they would be in a position to target him due to being starved of possession, its a daft argument as it is never going to happen and impossible to compare between the era's i simply feel that the current crop although not naturally as good players, with the advances in training etc would be too big, too strong and too powerful for the 85 team.

I could not see any pack from that era stand up to even our pack with the current training methods, i feel you would see them constantly on the back foot.

It is all relative though to the time they were playing and while I think the modern side would totally dominate the 85 team, the 85 team were clearly the more entertaining of the 2 sides.

You've picked a game that stood out at the time and since as one of the best ever. It's not really a fair indication of how the game was played as a whole.

If we're picking other finals Wigan were in during the same era you could point to the 87 Premiership final versus Warrington and say how much the game has improved since then and reach the opposite conclusions.

As many people have said I do happen to believe the game has become less skilful but it is also much quicker. Hopefully the moves to slow the PTB down will eventually lead to players having to become more skilful again and I think a few other rule changes could help speed this process up.