Wigan don't attempt offloads generally as a rule. Our forwards are pretty conservative in that respect. Paul Wood is a good shout on form but Mossop is a pick for the future with Wood being 30 by the time the 4 Nations comes about

Paul would should be given a go, but not in place of Mossop. There's room for both in the team.

Paul Wood for England pfft.

So your saying we are going to beat the Aussies in the three quarters and half backs?

None of our three quarters would get into Australias fourth team.

Even Sam Tomkins isn't better than any of: Slater, Gidley, Carney, Boyd ect

Graham and Burgess are better than all those forwards apart from Gallen who they are on a similar level to.

The others arn't any better than what we have got. If we have the likes of Burgess, Westwood Harrison putting in big hits we could dominate them on our day. Did you see what happened when Thaiday ran at the NSW number 7 in the second game? He just went low and won the collision with ease.

O Loughlin Btw hasn't proven himself at International level when given the opportunity. But i'd rather have him than Sinfield any day of the week.

Ben Creagh was very dominant against Wigan in the wcc.... and he isn't one of the aussies outstanding players.... its a myth that our forwards match up against the aussies and its just our backs that let us down..... Sam Burgess and Graham are not better forwards than Matt Scott... how did you even come to that conclusion?

having compared the stats posted by a wigan fan, per game harrison is better in every regard except missed tackles and errors, and is miles ahead in offloads and breaks.

not the best way to win an argument that, i'm guessing he didn't notice ben has played 25% less games



We haven't seen mossop as much as you have, you haven;t seen harrison as much as we have

however when our two teams have met the last few times i'm sure no one would disagree that harrison has been the better performer. (talking from 2009 here)

personally i hope they both become as good as we are saying and represent england in a win over those pesky aussies

oh and comparing him to westwood shows westwood as a far better statter (noticed how i didn't say player?

Statistically there isn't much difference between Mossop and Harrison.

Harrison averages about 90 metres per game, Mossop averages about 85.
Considering Mossop is generally spelled pretty equally with 3 other props at Wigan I'd guess that Harrison plays much more game time. So 85 metres from a shorter spell isn't necessarily worse.

Harrison averages 1 more tackle per game than Mossop, so not exactly a stat to suggest he's better. Again, if Harrison plays more game time as I think he does then it would suggest that Mossop is better as his work rate would be higher.

However, it's pretty pointless trying to compare them statistically. They both have different roles, play in teams with completely different approaches both defensively and in attack.

The one thing that makes me think Mossop is slightly better than Harrison is the missed tackles.

Do the aussies have a load of props who can offload or do on a regular basis? NO.

Paul Wood is over 30, we are meant to be building towards a future world cup... whats the point of him coming into the team now?

The obvious point your missing is that the aussies don't need creative forwards, as they have the best player in the world at 9, plus the best backline in world rugby.... england have a poor backline in comparison and a 9 that can't pass to his weak side... so forwards who regularly offload would help. Wood will be 32 at the world cup, hardly too old.... players for 4 nations should be picked on form not on age or reputation (Peacock).

We have creative forwards. Burgess, Ellis, Lockers and Roby... but we need props who will help dominate a game against the best in the world.

Mossop doesn't realise how good he can be, I think he could walk into any Ozzie side.
I think England/ GB can win any game against the Ozzies, its all about recognising the big situations, thats where we have, as a rugby nation have gone backwards. Look at Luke Robinson he can fluke his way into a good situation but he then throws a horrible panic pass or knocks on. But the point is- he can work his way into a good attacking position, the Ozzies can be dazzled but we then struggle in the second phase and thats where the Ozzies excell. Thats where we need to smarten up. The older players can't do it, you can't teach an old dog new tricks so give the Mossops & Mylers a chance. Show them how to develop a second phase against the Ozzies. And for god sakes don't ever pick ~Maguire~ ever ever ever again. I will never forgive him for his shocking defence back at the DW in 2009

Just simpley , CLASS

Mossop was outstanding yesterday.

Nevermind a great prospect, he's a very good player already.

You've assumed Harrison played more game time?
What have you based this on?

Harrison is regularly spelled.

You mention how you think Harrison compares with mossops stats with an adjustment factor of 'game time ' played which you have just assumed.

Then state stats mean very little?!

Odd post. Not a cohesive argument.

It was an argument against Wire fans using stats to say Harrison was better than Mossop. I pointed out that stats show there wasn't much between them anyway, hence you can't gauge much from them.

I've based Harrison playing more game time purely on the basis that back row forwards generally get more game time than props as most teams tend to rotate 4 props with 2 on the bench while having one back row forward on the bench covering the back row and loose forward.

It was simply guesswork, just to suggest that stats don't give the full story because they don't include minutes played.

So you based most of your post on guesswork..... why are people even bothering comparing two players in different positions... compare Mossop to Paul Wood, who may be battling each other for a 4 nations spot if Mcbanana doesn't keep picking Peacock on reputation.

woody beats him on everything but errors, which is down to how we play the game compared to yourselves.

It wasn't the main point I was trying to make, that's why. My point was that stats aren't accurate. I was just pointing out that those who did care about what the stats said would see that there wasn't much difference anyway. It's not unreasonable to assume that a back row plays more game time than a prop.

If it was that confusing I apologise. Stats need context and lots of it, that would be my main point.

Paul Wood will never play international rugby league

I've always thought Paul Wood was one of the most overrated props in the league and remains so, but his error count will always prevent him being considered for England.

Metres stats in particular are always difficult to assess for props, as effectiveness in the collision is often more crucial. In terms of our clubs for example, Jeff Lima is regularly criticised by opposition fans for being dominated in the collision, but has better metres per carry (7.12) than the likes of Wood (7.10) and Prescott (7.0) who seem to more regularly win the collision - obviously some cheap metres are being made somewhere (i.e, kick returns, etc). In this context, on observation Mossop's main advantage over the aforementioned is that he wins the collision nearly every time and gets a quick play the ball. Therefore whilst his work rate and total metres is lower giving a slightly underwhelming appearance, with his average per carry (7.33) and general output (aside for less offloads and better discipline) more comparable to the likes of Carvell, it is difficult to find a statistical measure that distinguishes actual impact of a prop. People seem to rely on the narrow stats provided as gospel to justify a good player, for example James Graham is lauded too highly for his individual impact based on total metres alone, whereas it is actually his tremendous workrate and durability in terms of carries that marks him out as special rather than the actual quality of individual drives in the game (average per carry only 7.0icon_cool.gif.

Overall Wigan have three props (Mossop, Lima and Prescott) with surprisingly similar stats, but differing in actual performance and impact. Coley on the other hand appears to be in decline from an attacking perspective, but has measurables like aggression and strength in the tackle that arent attributed.

And another thread ends up as a dick measuring contest between Wigan and Wire....

Who won?

Me

All bow down before the best dick-measurer on the board