Regards his size or lack of it, one think that O'Carroll does regularly generate due to his lower centre of gravity is a quick play the ball.

This may not be as eye catching as a prop hitting it up with 3 or 4 men hanging off him, but it can often be just as advantageous to our team regards getting us on the front foot and getting the defence back pedalling.

One thing that I have seen Leon Pryce do all his career at Saints is take the ball in on the second tackle and actively dive in at the tackle finding his front and off that play saints get a roll on apply the pressure.

We have a very dangerous team of broken field runners, Tomkins, TL, Roberts, Phelps Ainscough and Piggy can and will take advantage of a defence on the back foot. While the taller guys are fighting in the collision being held up to delay the PTB O'Carroll invariably finds his front as he is so difficult to hold up due to his low centre of gravity and this in the modern game in my opinion is a very important tool that should not be underestimated.

If he wasn't our best prop forward in 2009 before he got injured who was? Andy Coley was playing awful and had been demoted to the Reserves (in place of O'carroll), Fielden wasn't exactly on fire (getting smashed around at home to Castleford?) and Feka was just Feka. Sure he was making go forward, but was way too overweight and unfit & was a liability in defence. I'm genuinely curious who you thought was performing better. The general consensus from Wigan fans at that time (see the O'carroll injured thread) was that Eamon was our best performer.

I agree with you that MaGuire will probably still pick Paul Prescott, but I would imagine that O'carroll must still be in the back of his mind with his outstanding performances in the Reserves (according to Rogues). His loose carries are still an issue and could hamper his long term prospects at prop forward for a championship winning side (just as 'in theory' O'carroll's size apparently will).

And as for the final comment, every game we need to win. Mike MaGuire should pick the best team available and that is not a team picked on paper, or having preferences or sticking with experienced players - it's picking at team ,on form, who deserve their spot. IMO O'carroll should get a game against Les Catalans with Paul Prescott making way for him. You disagree to that is fair enough.

I never said people were calling him rubbish, but people are putting the mockers on him. They are completely ignoring his performances in Super League when coming out with statements like 'he will never make it with his size' when he clearly is capable of playing first team rugby at this level. He was great last season before he got injured. Short memories some people have. Ignore his size, ignore his age, ignore any comparison with Prescott and just concentrate on his performances on the pitch is what I say.

He held down a regular first team place for the first 7 weeks of Super League before he got injured. On that basis I think he has the capabilities of doing so. But you also contradict yourself in your statement you have said:


But then go on to say, in the very next sentence!



Unless I have misunderstood what you have put - which one is it?

Teams that are challenging for titles - you're right - wont come knocking for him, but what makes you think they will for Prescott? The top teams seem to be able to produce their own forwards anyway or are generally not interested in young forwards because they dont reach their peak till later on in their careers. Either way I don't see what relevance it has, but FWIW, O'carroll was getting pestered to go and play for Ireland again after a very impressive World Cup, where he stood his ground against some of the worlds best. However the lad decided it was best to get a good pre-season behind him and have a good season with us. I say give him a shot!

Exactly. I don't buy into Eamon O'carroll being too small at all. I think it's complete rubbish - why? - because it has never been a problem when he has played for us in Super League.

I didn't contrdict myself I said this
"I believe O'C will play quite a bit of SL However at the Top Level I think he will struggle to hold down a Regular Front Line Position.
He could however easily play Many Years as a 1st team regular but IMHO teams that want and are challenging for Honours won't be knocking our door down for him?"

Which meant that at a Top Club Challenging for honour he Won't hold down a regular Front line Props position (Meaning ourselves Hopefully)
However
At a club that is mid-table, less pressurised etc (Don't want to be disrespectful & name clubs) He will play SL Level.

I never said that Clubs will knock down the door for Prescott, I just think if you asked other clubs to pick one or the other more would pick Prescott than O'C IMO?

My frustration with this thread is more to do with the fact that some people who, and their entitled to their opinion of course, Like O'C and IMO are looking to manufatcure a reason for him to get picked in front of Prescott.
As others have said, his game time is more than Feka's, MM has picked him over O'C so he must rate him, His yards per carry are up there with the others & his errors are the same as Fielden and far less than Coley who everyones raving about?
I don't get where this Loose carry thing comes from? Yes, he has dropped 1 ball a game but then again so has each of the other forward if not more?

Top Line

If O'C gets picked this week, fair enough, it won't keep me up at night worrying over it and if the team keeps winning there will be no-one happier than me!
If Prescott/Fielden/Feka are rested to accomodate him as MM feels that rest will benefit that particular individual down the line then Go for it.
I just think Prescott has done pretty much everything that has been asked of him and I don't see a reason to "DROP" him as some of the other posters have intimated earlier due to him not performing.

This will upset Brian but here goes!
He says O'C is playing well in the reserves, well so are a dozen others! Even Pryce according to Brian!


I think Carmont has been "Average" by his own standards this year, do we drop him for Pryce?Goulding?etc
I just want to know what other posters think Prescott has done wrong that O'Carrol will do better? If MM picks Prescott over O'C this week again what do we do then next week? Break up a winning team to accomodate any one of the dozen players playing well in the reserves (Albeit mostly against kids so far this year) and "Drop" players who have been performing at a higher level that obviously agrees with MM or he wouldn't have picked them the following week?
Injuries will happen, 1 of the props will miss at some stage this Year and if O'C comes in and performs to a higher level that warrants him staying there you will not get any complaints from me.

But that's where I slightly disagree with your last bit in BOLD as I don't see where O'Carrolls "FORM" has been proved to be better than Prescott's or any of the 3 other props (And Mossop TBH) as they have won 3 games out of 3 as a Unit and none of them have performed badly IMHO?

I do agree that certain fans like certain styles of players and are more impressed by a particular style of player rather than anothers and as you say "Fair Enough"!



O'C doesn't Float my Boat as the saying goes where he obviosuly does it for other Posters?

I was at the Ireland v Samoa game at Parramatta and O'Carroll was the outstanding prop that night against some very big forwards.

I think what we'll see is Maguire using two out of three of Prescott, O'Carroll and Feka in rotation, as long as Fielden and Coley are performing as well as they are at present.
I also think we'll see the same with Joel, Hansen, Bailey and Mossop.

It's a great "problem" to have.

Hmmmm!


IIRC there was someone else there that same night as well


As you already know Brian O'C isn't my cup of tea although I have never "bagged" him.
I just don't like to see what I believe to be unwarranted criticism of 1 player just to try and get anohter player into the team.
As I've said before O'C will get his chance & again as you know I will give him my 100% support when he does play, plus I don't think he is a bad player in fact I know he is a "Good" player.
He is also a Valuable "Squad" player, I just don't see him as a Frontline Prop when the others are fit.????

As for it being a "Great" problems to have, then my thoughts are well documented.
I said at the start of last year that our "Squad" was as good as it had been for 5 years or so, with the development of some of the 21's and the improvement in some of the 1st team players we are seeing for various reason I think it's as good as anything out there?
We may not have as many "Superstars" as say Leeds or possibly Saints, but our "Squad, IMO is as good if not better than both!
When injuries etc do kick in, I thnk we will cope FAR BETTER than most clubs.

We'll find out tomorrow!

O'Carroll on bench



Feka & Hansen drop out the 17

Why Hansen?

Don't shoot the messenger!

Shoulder problem?

I heard Mossop was doubtful.

On bench, Bailey starts with JT in 2nd Row

Check your PM's a bit of info for you on the way!

Mossop was being rested because they didnt want to give him anymore injections for a rib injury.

they may risk him if hansen as pulled up

The problem when you are smaller than your opposition is that it takes much more effort to compete.

Wigan used to have this problem around 4 years ago. We would compete until the last 20 mins, when we simply ran out of gas.

We also got many injuries due to players being forced to tackle above their weight.


If truth be told I still think we are 1 enforcer prop short this season. Won't be a show stopper but I would be happier with an extra prop.

But isn't O'C that extra prop?
Oh No, I've started it all off again!

As a slightly different option - how about O'Carroll for when the pitches are drier and harder - which might suit him better (especially as Jonh stated for faster PTB). Given that Wigan have played against Hull KR, Warrington and now Catalan - all big packs on soft/heavy ptiches perhaps Prescott is the better option under these conditions.


At least as had been said Wigan now have options in all areas of the team - a very healthy position to be in (the loss of Phelps being a prime example - Roberts steps in etc etc and we do not seem to be any worse off).

Maquire will use his squad this season not just when injuries occur IMO.

If he has laid down the rules that hard work will be rewarded he can't stick with the same 17 each week baring injury for every round as Noble would tend to do.

Not sure what the situation is re Hansen and Mossop but resting Mossop if he's a bit battered is sensible.

With O'Carroll Maquire may just have decided his efforts in the reserves means he deserves a run in the first team. Injury or poor form of what might be deemed the regular first 17 can't be the only way players outside it can get called into the first 17. If that were the case a player like O'Carroll could bust his guts all season and get no reward. If that happened players who felt they had no chance would soon see little point in keeping up the same level of hard work and it becomes self defeating.

The hardest part of the coaches job is who to leave out to give a player like O'Carrol a run. I don't think Feka has done badly and neither has Prescott but Fielden and Coley have been better so it had to be one of those first two. I'd have gone for Prescott because he didn't have the full pre-season and could also perhaps do with a rest but I can't complain that Maquire is using his squad whoever he chooses to leave out because that is what I wanted Noble to do for the past three seasons.

Dave

The biggest thing Noble got wrong in his time at Wigan imo was not utilising his full squad so he got a competative edge to selection. He had 17 players in his mind and if at all possible he would stick to those 17 meaning they felt safe in their positions and that anybody outside of that didn't really feel there was a way in.

If Maguire is going the other way and giving opportunites to guys like O'Carroll tonight then good. He will be chomping at the bit for a game tonight and that should help guard against complacency a little. It should also make Feka sit up and take notice and have a blinding week in training next week to get his place back for the Bradford game.

I thought O'Carroll did very well in a dominant team against a BIG Catalan pack. The test for him will come in closer contests against better Superleague teams.

Agreed Rogues. I thought O'carroll had a good match, but everyone did in fairness.

His defence is awesome.

I really really think you need players like O'Carroll, in any side, whilst he may never break any pots and be the best in the world, if you put a brick wall in an oposition shirt he will run at it!

Oposition players always seem to try and line him up (ala morley) but he seldom seams to come off second best.

Also i dont recall him dropping much ball when he takes it in, which is sometimes a strugle for our front row, but not as bad this season.

I think he can play a Mick Cassidy type of role for us!

O'Carroll will always hold his end up in the side. He won't let you down and he'll get through his work with minimum fuss.

I thought he was great last night. He ran it tough, defended tough and made no mistakes. He very rarely does come up with any real errors and everytime I watch him I can't help but feel we really need to keep hold of this lad for the long term.

I've always said he'll be a slow burner but when this lad is 26-27 he'll be a very good player imo.

Guissett (I think) came flying out the line to put a big hit on O'carroll, he connected, but didn't stop him and he kept on going for a few more metres and more players had to come and put him down.

A real tough lad.

He was very impressive last night in all areas. His defence is superb, he's very quick out the line and from marker and so he really gets in the quick tackles and pegs the opposition back. He's also capable of standing up to some bigger players when they target him
Attacking was his big weakness last season, but last night he didn't have too much of a problem. His size makes him pretty easy to be pushed back by the opposition at times, and he doesn't have the poweful leg drive that Prescott and Mossop have, but he makes up for it by running direct and at some speed and covering ground quickly before the defence can meet him.

I think Coley, Fielden, Prescott and O'Carroll were all very good last night. Feka will have to work hard to get back into contention IMO because all 4 of those props are playing well.