Leroy Rivett won the Lance Todd and Challenge Cup, which pretty much goes to say your point is invalid.

Numerous team achievements don't necessarily make you a good player, see the likes of Bibey, Hargreaves, Mathers, etc, who have won trophies from being in the right place at the right time, rather than being the catalyst for such success. Similarly some of the games top players in RL have won very little because they happened not to play in the best side at the time - the likes of Schofield, Ward, Barrett, etc, won next to nothing in their career, but were standout players of their time.

For what its worth, I think Sinfield is a good (but not great) SL player and an exceptional leader, but I don't think he is talented enough to carry a team on his own and would not have won any of the trophies without being supported by the talents of McGuire, Burrow, Diskin, Senior, Ellis, Peacock, etc. He is the beneficiary of being in a very good side -only Saints had an equivalent depth of talent to Leeds from 2006-2009 - and I think he would appear little above average in most SL sides.

In terms of Sam - given he is only in his second season, has been voted to the Dream Team twice, won the young player of the year in 2009 and was part of the League Leaders in 2010, then I think he has made a good start to his career. Team honours will undoubtedly follow sooner or later and unless he is unfortunate with injuries, I predict that at the end of his career he will have a legacy that surpasses Sinfield due to his superior talent regardless of a positive or negative total trophy comparison.

Compare and Judge those players mentioned on there consistency over the course of the season and what value they add to there respective teams.

If your comparing Trophy wins then compare Shaun Edwards to Kevin Sinfield !

Paul cooke used to leaad an average hull side around the park before his off field troubles , imo he still shows some of his class just not often enough .
for me well up there with the most overrated has to be Ryan Bailey ,6'4 built like the side of a house prop forward and he has never made a first up tackle in all his years in a leeds jersey . he is soley on the park to niggle and upset folk as is the leeds way , nothing but a yellow bellied yorkshire pudding !!!!

Firstly I wasn't saying Sam Tomkins was overratted merely suggesting how can you claim that one player is world class despite not winning anything yet whilst also argue that someone who has won everything and doesn't have a huge "world class" reputation is overrated. It makes no sense.

Why would comparing Shaun Edwards to Sinfield help??? has anyone ever suggested Edwards was overrated? I suggest No, why?...Due to the fact he captained a team to numerous trophies and heaps of individual awards, maybe? I wonder has Sinfield not achieved a similar thing, at a time when its even harder to maintain at the top due to the salary cap.

Briers? Wire fans think he is a God.

Wellens.

Brough.

Myler.

Overrated: Wilkin, Ben Harrison, Myler, Sinfield, Cooke, McGuire

Underrated: Clough, Hansen, Chase, Holdsworth, Riddell

Horne
Sinfield
myler
wilkins

Check out Wilkin's stats v SOL's this year (or Hansen's) - I actually think he's very underrated.

Loads of Saints fans think he's rubbish, and most fans of other teams agree.

He's a poor stand off but an excellent back rower.

I agree, Wilkin has an excellent kicking game for a back rower. Not a good stand off though.

No thanks. I think I know who the better player is.

Sean O'Loughlin.

Wrong thread

While we are deciding who is great and who isnt whilst disregarding trophy hauls and awards, can I just point out that RL is a team game. Surely no player could win a competition such as Superleague or the play off series on his own whilst carrying the remaining members of the squad due to the length of such competitions.

Sinfield is a good player and an exceptional leader as you say but obviously he cant and shouldn't be responsible for all our recent sucess and any we may have in the future, he can only contribute towards it. He has been in sides winning trophies since 2004, (a 5 year period), bearing in mind cap restrictions and changes to playin rostas then surely this is not a case of being in the right place at the right time.

We can discount the Superleague dream team. Young player of the year 09 obviously down to sams individual tallent. LLS, 2010 did sam single handedly carry your squad towards it or was it a squad effort?

Amos roberts had 10 OUTSTANDING games. Dont neccesarily think he should play full back next season for us. Either him, or ben westwood.

Was you not there at the KC Stadium when he tore us to pieces and hull fc won with a score of around 42-6.

I think Wilkin's problem is the early promise he showed, to then turn into an average second rower, dosnt mean hes crap but he hasnt lived up to his expectation

Eorl Crabtree

Cameron Phelps.

Yep..

What! A fat Robbie Savage??

I'm a fan of Phelps thought he played some good rugby in 2009

Was that the year when St Judes would have beaten us?

Aye, that's the badger.