I do not disagree at all but some on here seem to rate him much higher and wonder why.

I agree. I sit on my opinions sometimes for fear of being castigated but my opinion is that Farrell is better than John Bateman and he’s better than Elliot Whitehead. I’ve been on the total RL forum recently saying Faz should be nailed on for a start for England and people have come back saying that view is wrong because Bateman and Whitehead are better but I disagree! Liam Farrell has always been better than Whitehead and just because Whitehead plays in the NRL doesn’t change my mind. It’s a close call between Faz and Bateman but I’ve always felt Farrell’s attack just puts him a slight nudge in front.

To think we’ll have Faz and Bateman again in the same team next year is just brilliant. They will comfortably be the best two second rowers in superleague.

He was injured when you signed him and looks like it hasn't improved.

People used to say similar about Lockers back round 2003/2004. Some young players come in to a side and they just look different. Morgan Smithies looks different to me, he looks comfortable and he looks determined not to let older players bully him. He’s going to be a future captain of Wigan and potentially England IMO. He’s had a poor few games for me since the restart but it’s all a learning curve and he will be so much better when we get on the other side of this. I’m so excited to see what him playing alongside John Bateman will do. A back three of Bateman, Faz and Smithies could be unbelievable!

Not if they perform like they did today. We can beat any team in this competition.

Just checked the stats and Smithies is 19 and has only played 31 games. Comparing him to Havard just shows how good Havard is.

The fact Smithies looks solid despite being so young and inexperienced suggests to me he will stand out in a couple of years. I don't think many can slot into the first team so well at his age. How long was is before Luke Thompson started to stand out for Saints for example? 4 years? Last year Smithies broke the record for tackles in a game!

I've been saying Havard reminds me of Jamie Peacock. It's a high bar but his stats this week are Peacock like, 52 tackles, 25 carries, 146m. Doing that in his 8th super league appearance is unbelievable.

I'm not convinced the team is a real contender this year but it's great watching some of these youngsters at the moment.

That’s got to be the most bizarre and ridiculous comparison I’ve seen. You’re comparing one of the best players in Super League history to Liam Farrell. Farrell is a very good player but he’s most definitely not even close to being one of the best players of all time.

Smithies is and always been a good player, but needs to curb his temperament or he will become, like Mcllorrum and the Tomkin brothers a regular target for the disciplinary committee.

To say, he is overrated is nonsense!

Can someone explain to me exactly what is the point of announcing a 21 man squad 48 hours before kick-off when changes can then be made to it?

Surely the purpose of it is that you go with the 21, no matter what the reason. Even then, you only pick 17 for the game, so it would take an unprecedented 5 withdrawals before any change should be sanctioned. If the coach has picked an inbalanced 21 man squad, then he should have to suffer the consequences.

I don’t think Smithies is overrated but I understand what others are saying about him.

I believe he is outstanding at what he does, but he does have limitations in his game. What I mean by that is players like (and I appreciate it’s unfair comparing him in this company) Hanley, Farrell and Locky were complete players. They pretty much had it all, they were naturals.

Smithies for me is more like a Phil Clark type player. He is a great grafter with an insane engine and I think with time and maturity the line breaking/strike running will come. Is he going to be a player that is going to become the traditional 3rd pivot we have been used to at Wigan? Probably not. Is he going to have to work in his game to make improvements where do of his predecessors had that natural talent? Yes.

The way the game is going I see him more likely as a secondrow than a 13. With a lack of creativity in the 13 role coming though the ranks in any teams I see most clubs going down the line of a 3rd Prop (Harvard/ Flower/ Singleton) at loose with an emphasis on the more dynamic secondrows.

Just because he isn’t as natural a player as some of his predecessors however his contribution can be just as important to the team and he certainly had the potential to be regarded as a future star of SL with his different style of contribution.

Talking about it being bizarre highlights how underrated the guy is IMO. He is consistently banging out stats in the second row that any backrower in the history of superleague would be made up with. He is always up at the top or near to the top for tackles, carries, metres etc and has an incredible strike rate for try’s and assists. If we’re talking of the best second rowers in superleague history I’d have him up in the top 5 without question. The comparison to Roby isn’t a direct one, they’re in different positions after all but what I’m getting at is that Roby has forged a reputation as a World Class player (and rightfully so) on a career of knocking out incredible numbers and that is what Farrell does but he’s never come close to getting the credit he deserves IMO.

Re Burgess, I wonder what the medical aspect of our recruitment process is like? He hasn't had any real injuries since being here, yet there clearly seems to be something wrong with him as he's a shadow of the player he was. You'd imagine therefore that this would have been picked up in any medical examinations he underwent. So did the club think that it was worth it anyway, or that he'd get better in time?

Instantly knew we were screwed when Farrell picked up that injury against Sydney last year.

That’s a concern for me.

Widely reported prior to signing he was shot due to an ongoing hip issue.

Similar to when we brought Sam back with major knee injury that was so bad it was a threat to his career and realistically he had only really recovered for it in the last year.

I think you're potentially underestimating how hard it is to slot into the forwards regularly at that age. At the same age Joel Tomkins was being loaned out to Widnes, Liam Farrell hadn't made his debut, Hansen was getting the odd game off the bench, Hock hadn't made his debut. Meanwhile Smithies has already established himself as first choice in the 17 regardless of who else is available IMO. I'd be interested to hear from those who watched him in the academy whether he was just a grafter at that level or whether he had more to his game when he was a bigger piece of the puzzle? In the Jamie Peacock special sky did, he said when he was first coming through he made a point of focusing on the hard un-flashy work to establish himself and gain the respect of the other forwards. I wonder whether there's an element of that?

Does anyone know the procedure when it comes to medical examinations prior to signing a player?

I can't remember any signings being cancelled because of a player failing a medical like they do in Football.

It does seem a strange one, as presumably a player would need to take, and pass, an array of physical tests for the position they play in, especially if the club is investing so much money in that player.

to be fair Sam was mis diagnosed so maybe we didnt think it was as bad as it first feared thats why he went under the knife straight away here

You may well be right, I am just going off what I have seen - it could well be he has been told to play in a certain way for example.. I do not doubt how well he has gone and continues to do all be it in a limited role. I hope he goes on to have a long and good career.

What I have seen is a good solid player with a strong work ethic and very good defensive abilities (although recently he might need to curb his aggression a bit). I haven't seen anything in an attacking sense which makes me sit up and take notice and that is a criticism that could be levelled at the pack in general (Farrell excepted who is on another level).

I hope he does have more to his game and we start to see it because it would add to the team massively. I just think some of the praise has been a little over the top - that is my reservation.

Your point is taken about previous forwards but I suspect that there was more competition for places (and more established forwards in the squad then). we have had to use a lot of youngsters over recent seasons (especially given the injury prone experienced forwards at the club) which not a bad thing.in some ways but may have meant they have been used sooner than otherwise might be the case.

anyone...?

I believe you lose an interchange if you play anyone who wasn't named in the initial 21.

At the start of the year changes to the 21 man squad would result in the club losing an interchange in the fixture. When Covid hit that was scrapped to make it easier for the clubs.

You're supposed to only be able to make changes to the 21 with a doctor's note I believe. So for example you used to get teams naming a strong 21 the week before a cup final then swapping them all out for a weak side on the day. The fans then get annoyed because some may have saved themselves the trip if the team had been honest about who would play. Possibly a bit of a safeguard against betting scandals as well (e.g Long and Gleeson in that exact situation). You could argue they can get themselves a doctor's note if they need one of course but I doubt a doctor would risk his/her licence by issuing 10 on the same day.

Thanks MadDogg & Grimmy.

So, in essence, there is no point at the moment in naming your squad so early and no penalty if you make changes. Makes you wonder why they still go through this charade!

Like I said, it still gives fans, opposition and betting companies a fair idea who is going to play due to the doctor's note requirement for any changes. A doctor would come under scrutiny if he/she wrote a load at once at a convenient time. This week is a good example, we can see already that we will have a different looking set of forwards as there is no Havard, Bullock or G.Burgess in the squad.