Hock comes back half way through that year as well

I think we need Bailey for 1 more year now Hock is out, we need 1 experienced secondrow to lead that area.

It's such a tough one I've not doubt that were Hock still here Bailey would have definitely been let go at the end of this year but now I doubt it, the backrow that I named was for 2011 because I anticipated that there's a high probability that Bailey will be given a new deal, although it should only be one year anything else would be a mistake. So that come the end of 2010 we'd have Phelps, Bailey, Coley, Fielden, Feka and Presscot of the top of my head all of contract, so that gives us plenty of cash available for the positions we do need to recruit in.

I would agree but what is more important, a prop for next year? or an experienced average player?

I think we should get through next year with the experience of Hansen and Lockers in the backrow and sign a prop. Bailey's money should get us a very good prop.

I would hope we could bring in a good Prop and retain Bailey, may be too optomistic though.

If it were a choice between a top Prop and Bailey then I agree I would take a Prop every time.

If we re-sign Bailey doesn't that mean that we will have re-sign all of the players who were out of contract at the end of this season bar Smith?

If you look at each player individually you can make a case for re-signing them all. People have done this with Phelps, Coley and TL already.

The trouble is by doing this then collectively we end up with the same team as this years don't we and it has not been good enough has it?

Everybody has said we a need a classy rough house prop forward and so IMO one or more of some peoples "favourite" players out of the list of those we have re-signed should have been sacrificed in order to free up their wages to sign such a player.

Bailey is a classic case as with his and Hock's wages surely that would be enough to go for one real class player? In fact you probably would not need to spend all of it if Bailey is on as much as people seem to think.

The steady re-signing of our out of contract players this year bar Smith has left us with the same team for 2010 as this minus Smith and Hock.

That has got to mean we will be a worse side than this season particularly if Noble gets another year and sticks with playing the established players at every opportunity.

Dave

You are right, if we sign Bailey again we will have a worse team, but we would have to hope for a new coach and that some players will improve.

Hopefully we will sign a new prop and we will improve in the pack as this would also improve our backs.

The fact you highlighted we have resigned players based on personal performances is so true. TL is a good player and yes he will do the job but I can't help thinking tough decisions have to be made to run a RL club on a SC and maybe we would of been better letting more players go but only time will tell.

There's no doubt that if we go with the same squad next year as we have this then it will be a weaker squad, but what choice do we have. Lenegan's already said that it's highly unlikely we'll sign anyone plus those he supposedly looked at he felt were not right for the club, so what do we do. It's glaringly obvious as to the area's that we need to strengthen yet as far as were aware 2011 will be the earliest that anything is done, we've obviously resigned most of are off contract players on 1 year deals to me signalling a large overhaul come 2011, why then when we could use there money now I don't know.

One word...Fielden.

I agree. Although Coley has been decent recently we should have taken the oppurtunity to get rid to free up some salary cap space. His salary freed combined with a chunk of Hock's would have allowed us to make a serious offer for a good prop.

Can you see the point I have been trying to make about Noble now? How can he be expected to improve the side when the side is getting worse each year. This year we lost Barrett and didn't replace him yet people expected us to challenge Leeds and Saints



Even as one of Noble's biggest defenders I agree this season has been a disappointment (so far) but will a new coach really take us to this "next level" people refer to when the playing personnel is getting weaker each year?

Its not really that simple though, hopefully we will have a new coach with new ideas and new methods, we will hopefully have a complete new backroom staff who can bring the best out of our players so there should be improvement there.

I would anticipate Coley and Bailey if resigned would be on reduced terms from there original deals add to this the loss of Hocks wage and Smiths we should be able to upgrade our juniors and still have the cash to bring in a new Prop.

If we do not and go with what we have minus Hock and Smith we have shown we can live without both of them and indeed at times florish without them, players like Prescott, Ainscough, Mossop, both Tomkins, Gleeson, O'Carroll, Mossop, Riddell and Roberts should all improve next year, or at least a good percentage of them should, you would also hope Feka and Fielden are put in some kind of shape by a new conditioner.

Add the likes of Farrell, and more time for TL and Tomkins to play together to the squad and although not ideal i think we could significantly improve on this year assuming we do bring new coaches to the club, regardless I would certainly hope for some kind of improvement.

We do not have many ageing players, Fielden looks old but lets face it he can't get any worse.

Now i am not saying we could suddenly become World beaters but I think we could put a team out capable of beating most sides and push for a top 3 or 4 place which is a step in the right direction and then have us looking to crack the top in 2011 when we lose Fielden and his massive sallary.

What you say is true, but results at home and a few results away have just been shocking and the tactics in our biggest game for a while were shocking. I was in the keep Noble camp until saturday evening.

Sorry don't want to turn this into a Noble debate (there's plenty of them). Was just making the point that if we do get a new coach I would hope he is given time and not expected to take us to the "next level" in his first season.

I agree, especially with the team he will be taking over. 2 years at least before I will expect to win something.

There are a lot of "if's" in all that. If we get a new coach, if we get new back room staff, if Feka, Fielden and several other players improve and so on.

At the moment the only certainty (if we re-sign Bailey as well as the rest) is we will be going into next season with the same squad as this minus two players and it has not been good enough.

The need for that class prop has not gone away and by signing everyone who was off contract up and using Hocks wages to improve younger players wages it seems from what IL has said there is no room to manoeuvre to sign such a player yet again.

We can do without Bailey IMO despite Hock going as well provided we use his wage to bring in the prop we so badly need. I have my doubts he is on as much as people think but supposing he is, then it seems obvious what needs to be done. When people have praised the re-signing of Phelps, Coley and TL as each one was signed up again I kept saying it reduced the pot available to sign the players we need and it seems that is what has happened. This is also what I meant when I said people should have been prepared to sacrifice one or more of their favourites who were out of contract if the team as a whole would have been improved by them leaving and their wages getting us that prop.

Dave

This is it in a nutshell. Tough and even unpopular decisions needed to be made to free up money to get the players we needed to improve the side.

Dave

I agree there are a lot of IFS but of the younger players it is to be expected there will be improvement next year.

I think it is also now highly likely that the current coaches will be replaced or at least some of them.

It is also highly likely with more time to gell the partnerships will improve.

As I said i do not think we will suddely become world beaters but i would expect us to improve to a level where we could at least be in with a shout of the top 4 which we have not been this year.

A good Prop and there would be no excuses for not being in the top 4.

I guess we will have to judge our squad when it is confirmed for the 2010 season, rather than slate it prior to it being confirmed.

I think there will be some improvement there as well but if Nobby gets the last year he seems to want as a SL coach with us we won't see many of them in the side given the senior players we have on the books.



Not sure why you think this because IL gives no indication of any major changes afoot. The only thing we have to go on is Noble has not been given a new deal.



I think there is some improvement possible in the side but it won't be enough on its own to get us any significant improvement in the league IMO. We will miss Hock over a season as opposed to half a season



We need a really good prop and the statements made by IL recently seem to suggest we won't be recruiting anybody. I also think we need a good half back to play alongside Tomkins but I have completely given up on that. I don't think saying our current squad is not good enough is anything but the truth so if we go as we are which has looked ever more likely as we re-signed one after the other of the out of contract players I won't be expecting a top 4 finish.

Dave

I will await passing judgement on the situation until the full squad and coaching line up is confirmed for 2010.

Thats all any of us can now do, the frustrating thing is the waiting game.

Where did Mossop play tonight?

Second row.

Wrong.


He played most of the game at Prop, moved to the secondrow at the end of the game.

Flanagans girlfriend is Australian and is heading back home.

Flanagan will be confirmed as a West Tigers player soon.

why ask then?