The SC isn't the problem as very few teams in SL actually spend to it. The lack of ambition by the RFL is the issue - happy to see small provincial towns potter along. They need to luck into a few more Koukash's and Argyle's because nothing they've put in place as an organisation has grown the game.

Marshall's mistake was the same as Manfredi's in last year's semi when we lost.

Manfredi is 2 and will be next year.
10 is Flower who will be next year.
If FPN stays he will be 8.
We will still have MM in the 9 shirt. Whether TL is at 7 will depend on if he retires and goes coaching.

It's popular to suggest we need a goal kicker but why? GW is decent his problem is so many of our tries are scored out wide by the corner flag. When did we last score more than one try in a game between the sticks. When Leeds were winning GF's McGuire and Burrow scored tries for fun and under or by the sticks. Leeds scores went up in 6s. When do we ever bust up the middle by a prop, quick PTB with players flooding through to take the quick pass or off load?
We are lethal left side and score loads of tries. Opposition teams know what we will do but we are that good there's nothing they can do to stop it. We offer no threat up the middle as out props don't take the ball up to bust the middle.
Right side attack has died a death. With Smith, Joel, Gells and Manfredi we were fast, skillful, a real threat and scored tries. We no longer pose a threat on the right side attack.
We have backs taking the ball up , get dominated by opposition forwards, then a slow PTB and we are going nowhere.
We need to improve our attack up the middle and right side to replicate the threat that we are on the left.
How improvements will come about I don't know. We have been watching the same playing routines for 3 years so whether it will change for the remainder of this season or next I don't know.
Something has to improve, finishing 8th is no good for Wigan. IL and SW know this, what they will do will be interesting to see.
How this will affect season ticket sales for next year remains to be seen.
I'm not suggesting Waney should go as I don't like people losing their jobs, by hell though we sure need a coach who will improve our attacking options.

.....or, finally abiding to the Salary Cap rules, has ruined Wigan!

It's obvious to everyone where the issues lie, but the fact is they aren't being acted on, next season Tommy has to retire, he is quite possibly the worst 7 I've seen at Wigan in my lifetime, he has absolutely no kicking game whatsoever, his only attempt is the chip kicks into the corner which never work because our wingers can't catch and the kick never has no pressure on them.We need to move Tomkins into the halves and Escare at full back, hopefully Sam can develop a good long kicking game and Escare has already got a decent one, this way Williams should have the pressure taken off him and won't have to try everything himself, the props are virtually non existent in 9/10 games which is hurting us badly, Nuuausala is hopefully leaving thank god, the way he flops to the floor after first contact is quite frankly embarrassing. We need a mobile prop who will offload more and we need a big prop who'll bust tackles, flower is a good prop imo and will help some of them issues next year. We aren't far away from greatness but changes in the halves and props are needed, along with an attack coach which is a must, I think Wane deserves another season but only on the condition of an attack coach, his ideas are obviously starting to stale but I still believe he's a good coach who can keep our trophies coming.

Simple. He would choose to ignore it because he was trying to support the on field decision whether it was right or wrong. The video refs have been doing this all season. In fact you could say he chose to ignore it in exactly the same way as you're choosing to ignore the bleeding obvious in your post. Perhaps you should apply to be a video ref. You certainly have the right credentials.

The semi final against salford springs to mind, the ref gave a try to Burgess yet Thaler managed to find a way to disallow it even though the evidence was inconclusive. The video ref doesn't improve the game one iota because they still get it wrong. We pay the guy in the middle of the pitch to do a job let's leave it to him to make the call and invest the video refs salary in developing more refs, perhaps then we can move to two refs on the field, for which for me is the way forward.

This is probably a controversial opinion but to me the reason our left is more effective than the right lies in part with Bateman. Defensively he is Mr Reliable but he doesn't have the hands that Farrell has to put his centre or winger away. It was Farrell who made the cut out pass to Budgie to score on Saturday. There's talk of Bateman replacing Lockers at 13 but unless we change the way we play (with loose acting as another pivot) Bateman doesn't have the hands to succeed there. Having Leuleuai on the right doesn't help either but I actually don't think he is too bad in terms of passing. It's his organisation/kicking that is lacking to me.

really? we are world and super league champions

Beat me to it Pieman!! Last 4 grand finals, won 2. We all know why we lost the 'Flower' final and we lost to Leeds after they were given a try from a Maguire knock on. We're the current SL and world champions who just reached the challenge cup final. Let the ruins continue eh?

not on this seasons efforts you are'nt

but we are and erm.... its a fact

Please explain what part of 'current' Superleague and world champions you don't understand. Oh, and your apostrophe is in the wrong place, the correct spelling is aren't.

Whether it was the wrong decision or not, you definitely can't say you lost the game as a result. Hull would have still been 2 points ahead, and the game is a completely different game. The Burgess try wouldn't have happened for a start, and as the game went past 70 minutes we started just kicking for corners and running the clock down. Who's to say that with just a one score lead we wouldn't have looked to be more positive and scored again ourselves. Equally you might have scored back to back tries and won, or you might have dropped it in the following set allowing us to re-establish our 8 point lead. Nobody could ever know how the game would have panned out.

I don't mind anyone saying it was the wrong call, but to suggest it cost you the game when you would have still trailed with 15 minutes left is silly. If you want something to blame, your very poor front row is a good place to start. Did FPN make a single metre after contact?

I think 'Surrender tackle specialist' is a legitimate position in Wigan packs. FPN takes over from Pettybourne and Lauaki before him. I wonder what Sims is up to?

apostrophe in the wrong place, well spotted now perhaps you can help me spot where pieman (it was his post that i replied to or did you fail to spot that?) mentioned 'current'

I didnt as we are as this seasons still isnt decided......not hard really

Somebody on the Hull forum posted the metres made by the starting props of both teams.

Taylor - 136
Watts - 121
Frank Paul - 46
Clubb - 29


Or something like that. That's where your first changes need to be made

We see these comparisons on a regular basis unfortunately. It has to be down to tactics. Surely our props have more yards in them than that? I can only assume it is what Wane wants them to do. We have had plenty of success under Wane but the way our props are used drives me crazy.

I've posted countless times on here. We may as well play with an extra 2 back rowers. What is the point of having props that just tackle? And in FPN's case most of his tackles are around the legs, I don't think I've seen him do a bit hit since he joined us??? Sutton and TT are our only props that can carry well (most games they don't though) and our only props that can actually get over 100m in a game (not that that's even spectacular).

But why not play with no props and just have 2 back rowers there that can play 80 minutes and just tackle themselves to death?

It must have been a tactic. FPN for example in the first half, barely made any contact with a Hull player and went down on to his front. Called a surrender tackle, but jeez is virtually a voluntary tackle

He's done it all season mate, obviously being coached that way. Sad thing is when he does drive he can make metres and has a good offload in him. Complete waste of a jersey.

If he is, I just don't understand. Refs give defenders more time in the tackle if it's they call surrender don't they? This sort of defeats the object.

When the signing of 'The Wrecking Ball' was announced I googled 'Frank Paul The Wrecking Ball' expecting to see numerous NRL videos of him skittling defences. What i found was one video of him giving a penalty away after cheap shotting somebody on his way back to the defensive line. I knew right then he was going to be poop. I should have warned everybody , sorry

But on the other hand only one team looked liked scoring in those last 15 mins so I know my money would have been on a Wigan win. Doubly so given you'd only been able to match us try for try in the preceding 65 mins despite an overwhelming possession and field position advantage. I suppose you can argue whatever you like in the final analysis. What I do know, however, is we were robbed of 6 points in a game we lost by 4. Says it all really.