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| To buy a top player from another SL club would cost a fortune and I would imagine you would need to up his wages.
To sign a top player from the NRL would impact on the salary cap and possibly also cost a fortune.
Yes we have money available, but it doesn't mean we have to throw it around willy nilly as though it's 1992. You just can't do that in this day and age (turns out you couldn't back then either but people didn't seem to care about that)
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| Some very unrealistic options being thrown around here - how many of the names being suggested are options Kirmond - really? he has just singed a new deal and would cost a fortune to buy out when we have Pettybourne arriving. Briscoe - possibly (unless he really is going tom Leeds). Lomax - do we really need another half/full back when we have Green / Smith / Powell / Hampshire / Williams and Bowen? Even if we could get him which I seriously doubt.
Of the others all would require large transfer fees (all the more so now it is known the club have money) and would ask for top wages - even if they were tempted which I suspect most would not be. The days when Wigan wanted a player and he would jump to be here are long long gone. Surely there must be better value looking at the Championship level if we need players.
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| Quote ="Father Ted"T Briscoe will probably go to Leeds.
Clarke will go to Wire as their two 9s will retire in the next 2 years.
Kirmond looks good in a Wakey shirt but looked anything but in a Hudds jersey.
Would cost too much right now and with all our money we couldn't match the fee and salary Wire could offer.
We have Hopkins signed and Leigh fans who've come on here say he's a far better player than Chris Hill. Can play prop, 2nd row and 13.
Burgess and Manfredi to compete for Pat's shirt.
Bowen in for Sam, I'd expect him to be stood down for games v London, Cas, Wakey, etc with Hampshire, Tierney and Burgess trying the fb position.
Carmont has been missed but Thornley has done as well as I expected him to do after only 3 SL games prior to this season. See how he goes 2014.
The biggest worry for me looking at next season is not positional but that of a top quality goal kicker who is also a top quality player.
Any names anyone?
IMO this is the wrong time to try and buy someone's best player. They know we are cashed up and will raise their price to a unacceptable level.'"
Bowen is an excelent goal kicker. He would be kicking for NQ if JT wasn't their kicker. He is also very accurate with his drop goals.
Back up will still be Smith/Charnley
Although, apparently now we have all this money we can sign who we want, so lets get Cam Smith.
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| Quote ="cadoo"At the VERY LEAST the money MUST be spent on some new players. Wigan cannot be seen to have sold their star player - a year earlier than necessary - for a 'record fee' and to have not spent a penny of it on players of any kind of stature. You're just Arsenal FC - a selling club. You lower the standards and reputation of the club. Wigan are the biggest club in British RL. The most successful, most prestigious, most famous - you name it. We are the big dogs of this sport whether people like or not. So test the resolve of Leeds for Watkins, test the resolve of Hull for Crooks/Lineham, test the resolve of Saints for Lomax, Walmsley etc. Start offering some monster fees and cherry pick the best talent in the competition. The NRL will continue to sh-t all over us with their astronomical salary cap and superior competition, but let's remain the premier team in this country at least.
Settling for scraps from lower end clubs to spend the money we have got for Tomkins is just not acceptable.
The fact we've bent over and sold Tomkins a year earlier than necessary is an absolute disgrace. Facts are that the money is useless - Tomkins is a once every 20 years sort of player. We've replaced a lad heading into his prime with a 31 year old on a one year deal. We have a record fee, but can't do much with it in a salary capped sport. For our chairman to hint it will go on the backroom stuff is disgusting. We shouldn't have to sell our best players to do that - and we don't have to sell our best players to do that. How thick does he think people are?
Ian Lenegan - get onto that market and headhunt the best talent in Super League. Invest that money back into the squad. A healthy bank balance does not win you trophies. Record fees do not win you trophies. Sam Tomkins wins you trophies. Hit the recruitment drive and bring some top talent to this club!'" I'm sorry but i don't fully agree with some point here cadoo
1 There is no i in team yes Sam is a quality player one of if not the best in a Wigan shirt but it's his team mates what give him space when our forwards get a hiding and he's got no room it shows
2 Why go chucking coin about at big name players? Yes Watkins or someone along the lines would be good to have but not needed someone like Craig Hall or Kris Welham would do a good job for us and not demand big coin
It's been shown by Leeds and us that youth is the way forward yes you need to bring them through with experienced players but we have them lets not go back to spending on players who don't give a ****, these young lads have grown up watching us and want to put that shirt on some would play for £0 thats what wins you trophies
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| Quote ="king warrior"I'm sorry but i don't fully agree with some point here cadoo
1 There is no i in team yes Sam is a quality player one of if not the best in a Wigan shirt but it's his team mates what give him space when our forwards get a hiding and he's got no room it shows
2 Why go chucking coin about at big name players? Yes Watkins or someone along the lines would be good to have but not needed someone like Craig Hall or Kris Welham would do a good job for us and not demand big coin
It's been shown by Leeds and us that youth is the way forward yes you need to bring them through with experienced players but we have them lets not go back to spending on players who don't give a ****, these young lads have grown up watching us and want to put that shirt on some would play for £0 thats what wins you trophies'"
No you are wrong.
You need a balance.
There is no doubt that no-one would like a return to the "Moranesqe" days of just playing for the £££.
However, do you think Hanley would have "played for £0"??
The worry is that we are swinging too much the other way.
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| Quote ="cadoo"At the VERY LEAST the money MUST be spent on some new players. Wigan cannot be seen to have sold their star player - a year earlier than necessary - for a 'record fee' and to have not spent a penny of it on players of any kind of stature. You're just Arsenal FC - a selling club. You lower the standards and reputation of the club. Wigan are the biggest club in British RL. The most successful, most prestigious, most famous - you name it. We are the big dogs of this sport whether people like or not. So test the resolve of Leeds for Watkins, test the resolve of Hull for Crooks/Lineham, test the resolve of Saints for Lomax, Walmsley etc. Start offering some monster fees and cherry pick the best talent in the competition. The NRL will continue to sh-t all over us with their astronomical salary cap and superior competition, but let's remain the premier team in this country at least.
Settling for scraps from lower end clubs to spend the money we have got for Tomkins is just not acceptable.
The fact we've bent over and sold Tomkins a year earlier than necessary is an absolute disgrace. Facts are that the money is useless - Tomkins is a once every 20 years sort of player. We've replaced a lad heading into his prime with a 31 year old on a one year deal. We have a record fee, but can't do much with it in a salary capped sport. For our chairman to hint it will go on the backroom stuff is disgusting. We shouldn't have to sell our best players to do that - and we don't have to sell our best players to do that. How thick does he think people are?
Ian Lenegan - get onto that market and headhunt the best talent in Super League. Invest that money back into the squad. A healthy bank balance does not win you trophies. Record fees do not win you trophies. Sam Tomkins wins you trophies. Hit the recruitment drive and bring some top talent to this club!'"
I agree.
Wigan have always had the policy of 'only the best will do' in terms of recruitment. And that is why Wigan have always had the highest attendances in UK Rugby League. Even surpassing the attendances at big city clubs like Leeds, Bradford or the Hull clubs.
And what was it that attracted those crowds for over 100 years ?
Not Wigans bank balance.
It was the star players.
Wigan always offered great entertainment. And that is what we are, a form of entertainment that nowadays has to compete with other forms of entertainment.
Mr Lenegan and others ought to remember that we are not all just 'walking £20 notes' . Unfortunately many businessmen having viewed their 'business plans' for far too long and far too often, assume we are.
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| Quote ="cadoo"At the VERY LEAST the money MUST be spent on some new players. Wigan cannot be seen to have sold their star player - a year earlier than necessary - for a 'record fee' and to have not spent a penny of it on players of any kind of stature. You're just Arsenal FC - a selling club. You lower the standards and reputation of the club. Wigan are the biggest club in British RL. The most successful, most prestigious, most famous - you name it. We are the big dogs of this sport whether people like or not. So test the resolve of Leeds for Watkins, test the resolve of Hull for Crooks/Lineham, test the resolve of Saints for Lomax, Walmsley etc. Start offering some monster fees and cherry pick the best talent in the competition. The NRL will continue to sh-t all over us with their astronomical salary cap and superior competition, but let's remain the premier team in this country at least.
Settling for scraps from lower end clubs to spend the money we have got for Tomkins is just not acceptable.
The fact we've bent over and sold Tomkins a year earlier than necessary is an absolute disgrace. Facts are that the money is useless - Tomkins is a once every 20 years sort of player. We've replaced a lad heading into his prime with a 31 year old on a one year deal. We have a record fee, but can't do much with it in a salary capped sport. For our chairman to hint it will go on the backroom stuff is disgusting. We shouldn't have to sell our best players to do that - and we don't have to sell our best players to do that. How thick does he think people are?
Ian Lenegan - get onto that market and headhunt the best talent in Super League. Invest that money back into the squad. A healthy bank balance does not win you trophies. Record fees do not win you trophies. Sam Tomkins wins you trophies. Hit the recruitment drive and bring some top talent to this club!'"
Quote ="fleabag"I agree.
Wigan have always had the policy of 'only the best will do' in terms of recruitment. And that is why Wigan have always had the highest attendances in UK Rugby League. Even surpassing the attendances at big city clubs like Leeds, Bradford or the Hull clubs.
And what was it that attracted those crowds for over 100 years ?
Not Wigans bank balance.
It was the star players.
Wigan always offered great entertainment. And that is what we are, a form of entertainment that nowadays has to compete with other forms of entertainment.
Mr Lenegan and others ought to remember that we are not all just 'walking £20 notes' . Unfortunately many businessmen having viewed their 'business plans' for far too long and far too often, assume we are.'"
I think both of you have hit the nail on the head. Particularly Cadoo's comment about the money being spent on the backroom stuff.
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| Quote ="Mash Butty"Would it be possible to secure the services for someone like Robbie Farah for 2015? Now would be nice but not likely, however there are always other options. There has been a trend for teams to sign players/coaches mid-season for the following season, perhaps we could start a new trend'"
I don't think that any big names are realistic at present but there are players that people are not talking about now who will be talked about once the World Cup kicks off and the trick is to identify which of those players can fit into our squad.
Don't rule out Wigan to pick up a bargain during the WC.
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| Quote ="DaveO"I think both of you have hit the nail on the head. Particularly Cadoo's comment about the money being spent on the backroom stuff.'"
It's pretty obvious really Dave.
Wigans population is tiny compared with the big city clubs.
But for longer than 100 years, Wigan has led the attendances for crowds for RL. (For RU as well for that matter at club level.)
And why is this ?
My Dad and his Dad before him have all supported Wigan having been born there. My Grandad was born in 1881 and my Dad was 90 this week.
They and I, were brought up on Wigan being the '[icreme de la creme[/i' of Rugby League, so it pains us to see what is going on today.
Does Wigan have to sell our best players to survive ? Or are we being asset stripped ?
We have decent attendances again this season plus a Wembley Cup Final win 'under our belt' so why the sales ?
Even Salford are buying, but we are behind them in the stakes this time.
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| Problem with going out and spending money is there's no one to buy that is any good.
Look at Salford, the big spenders, who are doing what Warrington did 8 or 9 years ago just after Simon Moran had taken over. At that time we were signing Gleeson and Johns, look at Salford's signings - some decent players but nobody that's going to make you think they are game changers that will challenge the top 4.
The danger with having money and having pressure to spend it is just spending big doesn't guarantee the player does well. Liverpool got £50m for Torres and they made sure they weren't criticised for sitting on the cash by spending £35m straight away on Andy Carroll.....
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| Quote ="sally cinnamon"Problem with going out and spending money is there's no one to buy that is any good.
Look at Salford, the big spenders, who are doing what Warrington did 8 or 9 years ago just after Simon Moran had taken over. At that time we were signing Gleeson and Johns, look at Salford's signings - some decent players but nobody that's going to make you think they are game changers that will challenge the top 4.
The danger with having money and having pressure to spend it is just spending big doesn't guarantee the player does well. Liverpool got £50m for Torres and they made sure they weren't criticised for sitting on the cash by spending £35m straight away on Andy Carroll.....'"
Good points mate. I think your correct in many ways but there or one or two players out there, that we could get for reasonable money that would definitely strengthen the team.
It is only a couple tbh but guys like Clark and Kirmond wouldn't cost the earth and your meant to be in for them. If the rumours about BJB to Wire are correct he's another that would have improved us but it looks like we're only willing to move for players that nobody else bids on (Taylor aside) for fear that the price will creep up.
Wire make decent players available by cherry picking them.
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| Quote ="JTB"Buy one of the many empty pubs/clubs about the town for a proper supporters club away from the corporate hell of DW.'"
Great idea.
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| Quote ="NickyKiss"Lenagan floated the supporters bar/club idea at a fans forum a few years back but wasn't the rumour that Whelan had threatened to put the rent up at the stadium if we went ahead?
He was supposedly miffed because this type of club would take away from the taking inside the stadium and its bars pre and post match.'"
There are lots of ways clubs could boost revenue, they have become far too reliant on TV money (and the Sky deal isn't a great one!) and have had their ambitions stifled by the stupidly counterproductive SC. They need to think more creatively. A club like Wigan, with probably 10s of thousands of fans (including casual fans) should be able to earn a lot more than £6m in revenue a year. If we assume there are say 30,000 people interested in the club to one degree or another then if we could get an extra £100 a year out of each fan on average then the club's turnover would rise by 50% to £9m. A 1000 local businesses putting in an additional £1000 each would get us another million, taking us to £10m. All this should be achievable for a brand like Wigan.
As we all know, we don't own the ground, so the club should be looking very hard at developing other business lines and revenue sources in Wigan and surrounding areas (though a Leigh branch of a Wigan leagues club may be a step too far, it would probably get firebombed... ).
I just don't buy the SC apologists line that there is nothing clubs can do and we have to accept that the SL clubs are more or less broke and there's nothing we can do about it. With just a bit of business sense clubs could massively boost their revenue.
It would actually be possible with some hard work to put the game in a position where our top clubs can at least put up a better fight against RU and the NRL. Would Sam really have risked a move to the NRL if we were stong enough financially to pay him say 400k p.a. ? Maybe he still would have moved for the challenge, but it would have been a much harder decision for him.
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| Quote ="Deano G"There are lots of ways clubs could boost revenue, they have become far too reliant on TV money (and the Sky deal isn't a great one!) and have had their ambitions stifled by the stupidly counterproductive SC. They need to think more creatively. A club like Wigan, with probably 10s of thousands of fans (including casual fans) should be able to earn a lot more than £6m in revenue a year. If we assume there are say 30,000 people interested in the club to one degree or another then if we could get an extra £100 a year out of each fan on average then the club's turnover would rise by 50% to £9m. A 1000 local businesses putting in an additional £1000 each would get us another million, taking us to £10m. All this should be achievable for a brand like Wigan.
'"
You make it sound easy! Don't you think Wigan, and every other club, are already trying that? Whatever one's opinion of IL, there's no denying his business acumen.
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| Quote ="Geoff"You make it sound easy! Don't you think Wigan, and every other club, are already trying that? Whatever one's opinion of IL, there's no denying his business acumen.'"
Isn't that what IL is trying with the likes of Wigan t.v. and Central Park?
If any on here have any good ideas on revenue generation then I'm sure IL and the Wigan board would be more than glad to hear from you.
Wigans merchandise sales have increased by something like a factor of 3 since IL took over, and our marketing is the best in Super League.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Isn't that what IL is trying with the likes of Wigan t.v. and Central Park?
If any on here have any good ideas on revenue generation then I'm sure IL and the Wigan board would be more than glad to hear from you.
Wigans merchandise sales have increased by something like a factor of 3 since IL took over, and our marketing is the best in Super League.'"
Wigan and or or two other clubs have greatly improved their marketing etc but being realistic that is only really appealing to those already interested in the main. I wonder how many new fans have been recruited in the last few years? There is a limit to how much return one club can effectively generate via those methods - especially outside their catchment areas. Although Wigan are trying to generate more via the S Wales plans which in the longer term may help 9although that is so far away as to be a non-starter in raising crowds in Wigan)
I wonder though if clubs could adopt a more pro-active approach at expansion by link ups with amateur clubs nearer to the RL heartlands - the experiences of Wrexham/Crusaders surely showed there was some interest in the North Wales/Chester areas (which do not have large/high profile RU clubs) - perhaps the likes of Wigan / Warrington etc should be trying to create link-ups in these areas?
Sadly I think a lack of vision in the game as a whole will always act as a very effective brake on any club (see Salford).
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Isn't that what IL is trying with the likes of Wigan t.v. and Central Park?
If any on here have any good ideas on revenue generation then I'm sure IL and the Wigan board would be more than glad to hear from you.
Wigans merchandise sales have increased by something like a factor of 3 since IL took over, and our marketing is the best in Super League.'"
Not good enough. What happens off the pitch is irrelevant. Why are we trying to promote the club when all we're doing is selling our best players one by one?
We'll be lucky to finish above Salford next season with the sub standard players we are signing.
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| Quote ="Conroy"We'll be lucky to finish above Salford next season with the sub standard players we are signing.'"
With their superstar signings i dont think so
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| Quote ="Conroy"Not good enough. What happens off the pitch is irrelevant. Why are we trying to promote the club when all we're doing is selling our best players one by one?
We'll be lucky to finish above Salford next season with the sub standard players we are signing.'"
Perhaps we should wait and make a judgement when we know who has been signed?
Pettybourne and Bowen are good signings (at least potentially) and Hopkins would appear to be longer term good singing. As far as I know no other signings have been announced (despite the various rumours).
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| Quote ="Conroy"Not good enough. What happens off the pitch is irrelevant. Why are we trying to promote the club when all we're doing is selling our best players one by one?
We'll be lucky to finish above Salford next season with the sub standard players we are signing.'"
1 Bowen v Mullanhey
2 Charnley v Meli
3 Goulding v Sa'u
4 Gelling/Thornley v Gleeson
5 Burgess v Williams
6 Green v Chase
7 M.Smith v T.Smith
8 Flower v Morley
9 McIlorum v Howarth
10 Dudson v McPherson
11 Hansen v Ashurst
12 Farrell v Dixon
13 O'Loughlin v Rapira
14 Taylor v Puletua
15 L.Tomkins/Hampshire/S.Powell v Fages
16. Crosby/A.Powell v Griffin
17. Pettybourne v Hock
Oh aye, dead lucky
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| Quote ="Conroy"Not good enough. What happens off the pitch is irrelevant. Why are we trying to promote the club when all we're doing is selling our best players one by one?
We'll be lucky to finish above Salford next season with the sub standard players we are signing.'"
do you have the address of any bookie who will take my bet that Salford will finish below Wigan next year..??
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| Sarcasm isn't easily spotted on here then?
Read my previous posts on the subject and you'll notice a distinct difference in my opinion
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| Quote ="sally cinnamon"Problem with going out and spending money is there's no one to buy that is any good.'"
It's about improving the first team really. If there are players knocking around in SL who would improve our first team we should be trying to bring them here.
Who do rate as your best player? How much would it take for Moran to sell him to Wigan?
Maybe unlike IL he would turn his nose up at any fee offered for the player but theoretically as contracts are worthless we have enough cash to tempt any club into selling whoever we felt would improve the Wigan first team.
Unfortunately I don't think Mr. Moran is going to troubled by any calls from IL enquiring about players.
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| Quote ="DaveO"It's about improving the first team really. If there are players knocking around in SL who would improve our first team we should be trying to bring them here.
Who do rate as your best player? How much would it take for Moran to sell him to Wigan?
Maybe unlike IL he would turn his nose up at any fee offered for the player but theoretically as contracts are worthless we have enough cash to tempt any club into selling whoever we felt would improve the Wigan first team.
Unfortunately I don't think Mr. Moran is going to troubled by any calls from IL enquiring about players.'"
He'd be a lot more troubled if a couple of NRL teams started enquiring about Ratchford, Myler, Atkins, Hill etc. though, especially if the players themselves wanted the move.
The salary cap in this country means a player moving from one top SL team to another is unlikely, why would they need to bother? They are already challenging for honours and it is unlikely one team could pay them much more than they are already on.
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International Board Member | 32361 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="WARRIORCRAIG"He'd be a lot more troubled if a couple of NRL teams started enquiring about Ratchford, Myler, Atkins, Hill etc. though, especially if the players themselves wanted the move.
The salary cap in this country means a player moving from one top SL team to another is unlikely, why would they need to bother? They are already challenging for honours and it is unlikely one team could pay them much more than they are already on.'"
Exactly, DaveO is, as usual, comparing apples with oranges.
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