Absolutely agree.

And i think you're bang on the money with that statement. Coley and Fielden are off contract at the end of the season, and they are the props who do the most amount of defensive work by a significant margin. If we want to get rid of both, and sign Moi Moi then the other prop will need to be significantly defensive and Prescott would have to step up his defensive workload by a lot to compensate to.

I really couldn't see anybody working Feka and Moi Moi in the same side unless they had 2 other hugely defensive props, which nobody seems to have.

What I said.

Not really, you were saying there were no younger players who could replace him, there are several IMO.

Moi Moi averages 44 minutes per game for Parra (42nd in the NRL prop table) not 60, he's fitter than he was and fitter than Feka. Fielden probably plays comparable minutes to Moi Moi but puts in close to 70% more defensive work. If Fielden was putting in the minutes he did at Bradford, or hell even the 60 minute mark his defence workload stats would be enormous.

A very interesting set of statistics if you can be bothered doing the analysis is what Fielden's stats look like if he was given a similar amount of carries to the top couple of props.

I'll be interested to see the result if we give him more ball next season.

Thought it was more tbh but thats possibly because I only saw him in the last few games of last season when i'm sure he was playing more minutes then that due to him ripping teams apart.

I think we could manage with 2 workhorse props and 2 explosive short burst props tbh especially given the options we have behind that with Mossop, O'Carroll, Davies ect who could come in and do a job if needs be.

It's all just speculation though. We have a full season to get started yet and alot can happen. We'll hopefully be sat here in a few months time saying we don't need to sign anybody.

It's not just a case of needing a workhorse though, you'd need damn good workhorses (Parra have the tackling machine also known as Nathan Hindmarsh in the 2nd row who helps compensate), ever wonder why other teams don't have the same idea and have e.g. Moi Moi and Feka? because with the money you'd have left cap wise, you couldn't afford 2 props of sufficient quality to compensate for them defensively

Agreed I hope we have a big season for all of our players, it will make next years off season especially spicy

Mossop, O'Carroll and Davies are all other good reasons why we need to consider any signings in the prop department carefully at the end of 2010, and why I'm personally glad we didn't sign a Carl Webb or Shane Tronc now (neither of which were a priority for salary cap and being retained by the NRL club that finished 12th in the NRL)

I'd like to see Fielden back to his best. He was a very good prop - a view which seems to be under attack from many for some reason - its like history is being rewritten. And at even close to his best he'd walk into the England side.

One thing that may help motivate him is how he'd like to be remembered as a player. Had he retired a few years ago we'd all be banging the drum on his behalf, but as it stands he risks being one of those players whose reputation is badly tarnished by his last few seasons.

Physically I think people may be right that putting on a bit of bulk may be a good thing. He perhaps needs to adjust his game to be more 'impact' and less of a Peacock-type role? He's got a decent frame on him and some speed, and should be making a real dent in the defence when he takes the ball up.

Everybody knows about Fielden's history, we're talking about the present and future. He isn't even the best prop at Wigan now, nevermind getting back into the England team.

That's entirely a matter of opinion.

So who is?

Prescott IMO.

I agree & so is Coley.

Feka is a better impact prop too.

Fielden aint that bad, its just his salary that is the problem.

He will be if he keeps progressing imo. I'd say Coley was just about our best prop last season though.

Overall theres improvment in all 4 of our front line props and i'd like to see that from each one of them this year.

Sums everything up pretty much.

He's about a 70-80k a year prop being paid around 200k a season(at a guess).

Except Fielden's defence and defensive workload is better than both of them (significantly in the case of Prescott) , and his go forward (per carry) is the same as Coley's and 0.1m less than Prescott's, whilst busting significantly more tackles than either of them (yet he's supposedly dominated in every tackle). The only area where Coley is better is offloads and even then it's coming at the cost of more errors and penalties (I would however like to see more offloads from Fielden)

Take Fieldens salary out of the equation and explain to me how Coley and Prescott are better.

Look at the defensive stats and in particular the work around the play the ball.

[urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2009&hp1=420&hs2=2009&hp2=29&stat=tries&season=2008[/url


[urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?season=2009&stat=marker_tackles&hs1=2009&hp1=2020&hs2=2009&hp2=29[/url

Fielden has made more metres than both Coley and Prescott, made more tackles and bust more tackles.

What's he doing wrong?

And don't forget that this time last year coley was being slated by almost everyone on here.

Stats shmats. It's what you see with your eyes.

According the Super League stats, Fielden also beats James Graham in those areas appart from metres.

Stats count for something. It may not tell the whole story but they give an indication of a players preformence imo.

Fielden won't get his old form back imo but his form of last season would be fine if he were on less money.

Thats what Wigan need to sort out if they're to keep him.

lmao ABP, i'm glad we're taking an objective approach to this. In the vast majority of cases I can find, the players who are perceived to be doing well in certain areas of play are also backed up by this on the stats. Now are you honestly saying that Fielden is operating in some sort of Bermuda Triangle zone where he (unlike the vast majority) has good stats but is actually the 4th best prop at our club?

It's doubly amazing that sensible posters, who can see the value of our new training methods and approaches (which include heavy use of statistical data) can be so dismissive of them in this case.

And no, I'm not just blindly defending Fielden I'll do it for any player that's getting unduly criticised. If anybody wants to criticise the amount of money we're paying for the return we get then that's an entirely different arguement and one i'd agree with (he was after all signed at a time when we were in dire straights and his contract reflects what a weak bargaining position the club was in at the time). But to try and make a case where a player isn't as good in areas where clearly the impartial data available backs up that he is? Of course i'll defend him.

You're absolutely correct they don't tell the whole story, but they certainly count and they do align very nicely with the players who are recognised as being strong in certain areas do have the stats to back them up.

One of the stats that does bemuse me is the tackle bust stat. I can't think of one occasion were he's burst through the defensive line. The only thing I can think of regarding this is when he 'bumps' off tacklers and comes backwards. His defensive work is never in question though.

I think if we're all honest about Fielden, we'd admit that we need him to be much more of a force during a match. Yes, his stats are good. No-one says he shirks the hard work. And by all accounts he's a smashing bloke off the field. But we're all long enough in the tooth to distinguish between an effective attacking forward and an ineffective one.

I can think of several prop forwards from earlier eras - Mills, Skerrett, Ward - who probably didn't do half as much work as Fielden, but who I'd rather have in my squad at present simply because they terrorised the opposition and battered their line into submission.

It all boils down to what you want from your front rowers. There are different jobs to do in that part of the field, but I think that being a fierce competitor is a basic requirement.

Compared to his first season with us, Stu is a rather a meek character these days. He never looks like he's going to smash through any more, he never puts some gobshizzer on the opposite side firmly on his butt.

The disappointing thing for me, as others have said, is that occasionally we've seen flashes of the old Fielden, but no more. When we lost to Hull KR at home in mid-summer, I thought he had an outstanding game. He was really up for it. He was breaking tackles, he was defending like a tiger - but then, the following week, the pussy cat was back. That is so frustrating from a fan's point of view.

We need more than just a guy who works hard. We need a soldier.