on many accounts I agree, Manfredi was on fire before his injury, and deserves his spot in the team, however there is a much bigger issue to manage if Wigan step back and consider future planning.

Currently out of

Hampshire
Bowen
Burgess
Charnley
Manfredi

2 of the list are on their way next season. Burgess is in form and a massive asset to the team but in the long term the improvements he makes this season are more likely to benefit the Roosters rather than us, in the process we could lose Charnley who we need to get upto speed as in theory he'll be one of our two starting wingers next season.

If anyone is dropped it should be Bowen. He's not a long term development and quiet frankly is a FB who makes glaring errors which cost us points if not the game, especially in big games. He's patchy, one game looks the part, the next is full of costly errors.
The natural replace as we've seen is Hampshire, but is this a good thing? He's a 6, been tried and dropped as a FB on numerous occasions, this is not the way to develop Rocky mentally or a a first teamer, if you are going to give him game time, rest Smith and let Rocky and Williams play 6 and 7, even if it means spelling him off the bench or moving Smith to 9 for a period of the game giving Micky a rest.

So who for FB? Keep Manfredi, Josh and Joe on the pitch, one of them to FB, all fast, great runners from broken play, all big lads who can catch.

Let's not alienate the players who are going to serve us in the long term.

I feel for Josh. It looks like he's carrying the can for a very poor team performance. To exclude him from the 19 is unfair.

I can't agree with people about his form. He's hardly had a pass since he's been back apart from at Huddersfield, where I thought he was excellent.

However, Manfredi has earned the right to be in the team when fit. It really is that simple.

Bowen was shocking last week, but on the back of two outstanding performances against Leeds and Huddersfield, deserves another chance.

It might be worth putting Josh in at centre for a few games, let Joel go back in the pack. I think Bateman needs a breather after the shifts he's put in this season. We are in danger of burning him out.

I don't see why it's unfair to drop Josh. If it wasn't for Manfredi getting injured he would have really struggled to get back into the team. When Manfredi got injured he should've known this was his big chance to perform and stay in the team.

The truth is, he hasn't performed at all. He's been extremely ordinary and now that Dom is fit I honestly can't disagree with the change to the squad. Dom was brilliant before his injury and deserves another go.

[/i[/u

This for me this is the telling point, why make it public.

He says he can't see himself playing for any other Superleague side, so maybe he fancies his chances in the NRL or with RU.

Why was Logan Tomkins dropped for Powell then?

I'd have given him a run at centre. Joel Tomkins is lost there and I don't understand why Wane persists with him in that position. Think that has had a major impact on Charnley's form too.

He played fullback throughout juniors including the u16s scholarship, England u16s etc as far as I know. Rogues will know better than me whether he's played there much since then.



I'd imagine the logic with playing Joel Tomkins at right centre is that his main weapon is his one handed carry/offload with that big left hand fend. I've never got the impression he's a particularly strong passer on either hand anyway, so what you gain in his passing may not outweigh what you lose with his own ability to run the ball.

And...another one. Wane likes setting himself up for a fall doesn't he. www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... -1-7316572

And...another one. Wane likes setting himself up for a fall doesn't he. www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... -1-7316572

Quote ="MadDogg"And...another one. Wane likes setting himself up for a fall doesn't he. www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... -1-7316572'" Wish he'd keep his mouth shut

Quote ="MadDogg"And...another one. Wane likes setting himself up for a fall doesn't he. www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... -1-7316572'" Wish he'd keep his mouth shut

Coach in - "We are trying to win all our games" shocker!!!

So when we get beat next it'll be Wane's fault for saying we were trying to win?

I know we have different views on Wane but even you must agree there's probably a different way to go about this, one that wouldn't get everyone's backs up?

Why can't he simply say we didn't perform last week and that's happened too many times this year for his liking? All he needs to say is the goal is to find consistency and that will put us right where we want to be.

He doesn't need to say all the best in the comp stuff especially after a few games weve seen this year A win vs Leeds doesn't prove that, trophies do imo. I also don't think the heavy defeats are the sign of a champion team. Every side will lose a game but it's rare they get battered more than once.

I have to admit I preferred the Madge way of doing things - say nothing to the press but make sure the players know what they need to do. I sometimes think Wane flatters to deceive with this kind of thing where Madge played it sweet and innocent with the press but had a real steel/ruthless side to him behind the scenes.

Yes, I wouldn't disagree with you. Madge is one of the top 3 coaches in the world and he was great for us. But Waney is different. He wears his heart on his sleeve, I find this refreshing. I mean Madge was like 'Mogadon Man' at times wasn't he?

Part of Wane's job is to talk to the press. I'd imagine he is a journo's dream. When we are winning that's fine but when we are losing he can look daft.

I understand the criticisms of him this season and he does seem to have lost his way a bit. His tactics are killing the centres and second rowers whilst the props are doing nothing. His treatment of Hampshire is baffling. I don't like the way Josh has been scapegoated. Keeping Joel at centre is ruing Joel. He was almost back to his best earlier on in the season in the second row, which was to Joel's credit because not many people come back from Union just as good as when they left. So there's lots to question. I always feel with these things that he will know better than we do. After all he was proved right with Burgess and Williams after people were calling for them to be dropped.

So lots to criticise, but really, criticising him for saying we will be trying to win all our games is a bit thin. I'd expect any coach to say the same.

I get tired of hearing it, to be honest. I just think it's the criticism of the moment, much as criticising Madge for not saying anything was the criticism of 2010.

I agree with you. Coach expresses desire to win everything. Wow. There's a controversy.

I think he needs to find a middle ground on things e.g. everyone loves to see a Wigan lad come through but Wane has put his faith in a lot of them (Budgie, Williams, Hampahire, Sutton, Connor Farrell, Mamfredi) in one go. I doubt you'll find many people who would disagree it has had an impact on the side.

Likewise people like a rough diamond/gamble like Carmont but, again Wane has arguably put Gelling, Sarge, Bateman, TT & Clubb into prominent roles. Granted some have worked out well but when you factor these in with the kids it's a reason imo that we can't get consistency. The guys are learning/developing and there's only a few truly hardened pros in the side to lead them (Smith and Bowen the only backs for example).

You see it with his press statements - he just goes that little bit too far imo. Agree that Madge always kept shut even when you wanted him to speak out.

Wane just isn't making it easy on himself. If he swallowed his Wigan pride and backed the signing of Sam up with proper fully fledged prop then he'd settle down not only the team but the fans as well.

Agreed. Watching Saints/Cas last night Millington and Lynch stood out. Now I'd kill for two props like those two. We seem to get bullied every week. Look around the league and Cuthbertson/Peacock, Hill/Sims, Amor/Walmsley, Millington/Lynch seem much stronger than whoever is our best two (Clubb/Flower?).

Also; am I the only one who is worried that Sam may be crocked?

Agreed. Funny you should point out our two best props being Clubb (centre) and Flower (13). Where's our 29/30 year old fully fledged prop like Coley or Lima?

I'm hoping Sam is getting his injuriea out of the way. Happy for him to sit out the rest of this year.

I wouldn't be. I want to see him playing for the Warriors (and playing well) asap. Sitting out the season would indicate something seriously amiss.. And, to be fair, I don't think there's any evidence of that. Sam didn't miss many games last season.

And I agree with aboveus about Millington and Lynch, they were both excellent. And both can play a bit too! It does seem like our props get an easy ride whilst Joel and Sarge shoulder much of their burden.

Yes and cop flack for missing tackles. Is it any wonder they miss tackles when they are probably knackered - Sarge has been taking second carry in every set ever since Gelling was injured.

On his last appearance for NZW it was remarked by the commentator that he made a total of 37 metres in the whole game. He clearly wasn't fit, and missed last weeks game again.

My worry is that his body has taken such a pounding in his time over there that he won't have that same spark when he returns. Did you know that he's only made one line break in all the time he's played over there? It looks to me like he's lost his blistering pace. I hope to God I'm wrong.

I think he has the skills to be a great half back and that's where he will end up (again) IMO.

Yup, agreed. I know Gells did it, but he has the physique for it. Sarge isn't the biggest centre in the comp, and putting that extra work-load on him isn't helping his game.

Anyway, it'd be nice to see Flower, Clubb and Mossop really stand up for the rest of the season

On Sam, in his last game, he either was far from fully fit, or couldn't be d! Well, that's how it looked, but I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt. Line breaks are a lot harder to come in the NRL. How many do real speedsters like Michael Jennings make? Not a couple in every game like Sam used to do here, that's for sure!

[That may be a slight exaggeration, before some pedant pipes up

In reply to abovepie's comments. I thought Millington and Lynch were very good when they came on for the last 20 mins or so. Wasn't too impressed how they went in the first 25.
I do think they benefit from Milner coming off the bench. He's a hooker doing to second stint and we don't have that. Logan did ok but he's gone now. Powell doesn't do it at 9 for us in the interchange with Micky, we lose a lot of intensity there.
Cuthbertson and Peacock were found out in the last 50 mins against us at Newcastle. There again they don't have a hooker doing the 2nd stint after Aiton goes off.
Hill/Sims again at times are very good, they do have two hookers in the 80 mins.
Amor and Walmsley are average and excellent respectively. They have a hooker on for the full 80 - Roby.

Some of those props, Walmsley I ve noticed more, have 3 spells. That time is limited when subs go to 6 from four rather than 10 from four as now.

We have a solid but fast front row who can and do get 3-4 men in a tackle which exhausts the opposition props very quickly. Where we lose it is bringing on a half back to replace a hooker/forward in Micky. We the lose intensity altogether. He has to get up to the pace of the game and is a half back and not a forward.

We need to bring a backrow forward from 2nd row to 9 when Micky goes off. Bateman would do the job brilliantly IMO.
Bateman starts the game, then when Micky departs he goes to 9 until MM returns. His place is taken by a back rower from the bench. When Micky comes back on Bateman leaves the game to the bench.
Bateman is a rugged tacker, got good hands, quite a bit of pace and a very quick Rugby brain that can spot the gaps. If he starts the game he does not have to take 5-10 mins to pick up the pace of the game.
With Bateman (or Faz) going to 9 we would not lose any of the intensity that we have been doing for years and which has been our downfall this past few of seasons. It would also give us 4 forwards on the bench and do us nicely for the reduction in interchage.

What about 80mins from MM?

Either that or bring in a relatively cheap and young back up option from the NRL. Someone with a bit of pace going against tired legs

Well, if it's half as bad the Wish FM guys say, I'm glad I didn't make the journey.

Still, people have been clamouring for Rocky to be given a go in the halves, and it sounds like they've got their wish.