Fair enough your entitled your opinion but I just can't see it where going backwards under wane and there is some serious problems with wigan, he IMO is a very limited coach

How do you arrive to this conclusion?
3 full seasons and 4 trophies.
Was he limited in 2013?
He has problems we will now see how he responds.

OK..

He hasn't worked miracles. As we can all now see MM worked miracles and SW has lived off the back of those miracles..until now.

SW has been more than happy to replace the Aussies with Wigan / Local lads and i fully endorse that if it works.. but it hasn't.

We look really weak and that is the fault of SW and IL..

IL penny pinching..SW delusions of Grandeaur.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I can't call a guy 'limited' who's brought through so many good players for us though or a guy who's won plenty for us or a guy that has guided us through a period of us selling off our best players yet has managed to keep us competitive

.
I've watched Wanes teams from the days of him being a coach in the juniors and he will stand up to this. These players will work for him and turn it around.

Where is this proof that Wane is chuffed to bits to replace good players with juniors? I've never bought that, I believe it's what's being given to him. He's a winner and isn't naive enough to think lads like Williams can come in and be as good as Blake Green. He works under constraints IMO and does what he can within them.

Maguire was given Finch, Lima, Hoffman etc to work with Sam Tomkins, Richards, Leuluai, Fielden etc. wane had been given Williams, Clubb, Tautai, Burgess, Sam Powell and so on. It's like chalk and cheese!

Ah.. so it's not Wanes fault even though he has stated in the press his desire for an all home grown team and no need to recruit because he has all the players he needs...(or was that a recent nightmare i had)

I take it back you're not Brian Noble you're Gareth Hock!

I also take it back..your not IL...Your SW..

He's never going to come out and bag them. He works with what he's given. Kris Rads has admitted that at the fans forum.

Wane loved Blake Green. If he was such a moronic obsessive that wanted an all Wigan team he would have fired him off ages back and the likes of Gelling and Tautai wouldn't be picked now.

Strange behaviour for Wigans own Hitler who wants 17 lads from Platt Waz and Ince turning out for us. He'll be replacing the half time oranges with Meat pies next.

I accept all that,but we've just seem Wakey, derided as a side fit for bottom place, give Saints a real test and arguably have been a bit unlucky not to get anything from the game. Meanwhile, we've been tonked by an (admittedly not that bad) side who haven't managed a win all season.

If it had been a poor first half, and we'd been able to turn it around at half-time, it wouldn't have been so bad, but, worryingly, there was no sign of that.

Well he's not working very well with what he been given..maybe..just maybe he thinks he can turn the local lad into the next superstar..maybe he needs be more bothered about the fans not turning up rather than his ego of being the best coach..

Was speaking to some Wigan fans at the game, I made a point of saying that was the worst Wigan performance I've ever seen! They said that they don't expect much at Cas anyway, but you weren't in the game at all. Zero discipline, half backs are dreadful, in particularly Matty smith, ignore his little solo try after 80 minutes because he needs to be doing more throughout the game. Him and charnley international players, wowza. That being said, you cannot get any worse!

Truth is 6 penalties led to tries, being called Tomkins does not give you the right to wear a shirt, although it might bring the ego, he is costing games by stupid penalties along with farrel, smith needs to be dropped he is poor, give Williams and Powell a good run, if you all think back to last season that pairing got you to old Trafford with wins in some tough matches whilst smith and green were out. Wane is completely inept as a coach that is plain to see, but the fans that hammer the youngsters in the team need to look harder it's the so called experienced players that are letting you down. You have a team (squad) that is capable of being at the top for many years you just can't see past your Tomkins and smith to let them flourish.

You make a very good point here.

Also a note to you Wiganers, stop knee jerking we are not yet 4 weeks into a very long season. Last season the Wire lost 5 of our 1st 7 games but we still went onto being in the Semi Finals of the CC and only 80 minutes away from O/T.

You are beginning to sound like that lot from Stains did a few seasons ago & thats one thing you definitely don want.

Quote ="Pemps"An "Enforcer" should be going round smashing people not giving penalties away for laying on. Although I wasn't in the room when Wane briefed him, I'm will to bet a pound to a penny that Wane hasn't asked him to hold players down.'" m.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-war ... -1-7013722 - he was told by Wane in pre-season. I find it no coincidence that Farrell's performances have dropped off significantly since this. It isn't Faz's game. The guy doesn't need to belt people. Just make your tackles stick - remember when he went several months without missing a tackle? - keep your discipline and run the ball hard. Maybe a week of doing push ups has done us no good either.

Quote ="Pemps"An "Enforcer" should be going round smashing people not giving penalties away for laying on. Although I wasn't in the room when Wane briefed him, I'm will to bet a pound to a penny that Wane hasn't asked him to hold players down.'" m.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-war ... -1-7013722 - he was told by Wane in pre-season. I find it no coincidence that Farrell's performances have dropped off significantly since this. It isn't Faz's game. The guy doesn't need to belt people. Just make your tackles stick - remember when he went several months without missing a tackle? - keep your discipline and run the ball hard. Maybe a week of doing push ups has done us no good either.

Fair play to you, sensible post. Wire gave Wigan a hell of a fright in that semi final and should have won if Myler didn't miss that drop goal sitter. It is an uphill task for the likes of Wigan and Huddersfield to make that top 4, but it can be done IMO.

It was only 3 games lost. Saints , Leeds & the "Thugs"

Nail hit on head here mate... All is not rosy at the moment, but we have international standard whingers..

It's worth pointing out that if Justin Carney was that special, he'd still be in the NRL. It seems nobody there was interested in coming in for him. More than good enough to trouble us and other SL sides, though.

In fact, from the little I've seen so far, we should be congratulating Cas; some of their high-speed attacking play was excellent; they put it together very well at times, and would have beaten some better-organised outfits than us with that performance.

Somewhat fortunately I missed this game last week, as I wasn't in the country, but I was wondering how Greenwood went on? Obviously it doesn't look like any of the lads had anything like a stormer but I was wondering if he in particular played better/worse than the rest of them. He looked fairly decent the few times I saw London on TV last year and I was hoping those performances would translate to a pretty successful Wigan career.

Quote ="Dr notsostrangelove"Somewhat fortunately I missed this game last week, as I wasn't in the country, but I was wondering how Greenwood went on? Obviously it doesn't look like any of the lads had anything like a stormer but I was wondering if he in particular played better/worse than the rest of them. He looked fairly decent the few times I saw London on TV last year and I was hoping those performances would translate to a pretty successful Wigan career.'" Didn't come on until the second half. Somewhat surprisingly Patrick came on with Tautai when Mossop and Clubb went off after 20 minutes or so. According to the Super League stats only had two carries making 12 metres. He did make 11 tackles and missed only one which was a significantly better ratio than the other 4 props used. But wasn't on long enough to form an opinion. I fear that he'll lose his place tonight, which would be a shame. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11040

Quote ="Dr notsostrangelove"Somewhat fortunately I missed this game last week, as I wasn't in the country, but I was wondering how Greenwood went on? Obviously it doesn't look like any of the lads had anything like a stormer but I was wondering if he in particular played better/worse than the rest of them. He looked fairly decent the few times I saw London on TV last year and I was hoping those performances would translate to a pretty successful Wigan career.'" Didn't come on until the second half. Somewhat surprisingly Patrick came on with Tautai when Mossop and Clubb went off after 20 minutes or so. According to the Super League stats only had two carries making 12 metres. He did make 11 tackles and missed only one which was a significantly better ratio than the other 4 props used. But wasn't on long enough to form an opinion. I fear that he'll lose his place tonight, which would be a shame. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11040

Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"Didn't come on until the second half. Somewhat surprisingly Patrick came on with Tautai when Mossop and Clubb went off after 20 minutes or so. According to the Super League stats only had two carries making 12 metres. He did make 11 tackles and missed only one which was a significantly better ratio than the other 4 props used. But wasn't on long enough to form an opinion. I fear that he'll lose his place tonight, which would be a shame. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11040'" Patrick and Tautai seems a really small front row, particularly without Lockers offering a bit of extra size from loose. Shame he couldn't have had a few more minutes as he at least offers a bit of moderate size compared to those 2, and those stats certainly aren't embarrassing in light of the score. I'd rather see him in the team tonight than Sutton, I think 19/20 is just a bit too young to be playing overly regularly at prop at this level (though it looks like Sutton might have a fantastically high ceiling).

Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"Didn't come on until the second half. Somewhat surprisingly Patrick came on with Tautai when Mossop and Clubb went off after 20 minutes or so. According to the Super League stats only had two carries making 12 metres. He did make 11 tackles and missed only one which was a significantly better ratio than the other 4 props used. But wasn't on long enough to form an opinion. I fear that he'll lose his place tonight, which would be a shame. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11040'" Patrick and Tautai seems a really small front row, particularly without Lockers offering a bit of extra size from loose. Shame he couldn't have had a few more minutes as he at least offers a bit of moderate size compared to those 2, and those stats certainly aren't embarrassing in light of the score. I'd rather see him in the team tonight than Sutton, I think 19/20 is just a bit too young to be playing overly regularly at prop at this level (though it looks like Sutton might have a fantastically high ceiling).

I agree with this. Greenwood should play tonight for me.

I hope James progresses as well has his younger brother Joe at Saints, who seems to be getting a regular spot at Saints and when I have seen him on the box he has been impressive.

Greenwood and Manfredi out with Sutton and Burgess back in.

Sutton starts alongside Mossop and Patricks at Loose Forward with Bateman on the bench.