A concious decision based on mounting losses and huge debts to directors. If the board weren't fed up pumping money in we'd never see half the kids Saints are touting now.

You have been around here long enough to know my views on overseas players in general and how many there are at Wigan in particular.

I have to say though the article is typical newsprint when it says:

"How much more exciting must it be for a Saints fan to look forward to watching the development of these young players, whereas across at the JJB Stadium they can only wonder about the years of neglect of the development of local talent that has forced the current coach Brian Noble to build a team around the likes of Phil Bailey, Mark Riddell, Tim Smith and Cameron Phelps.

He hasn't been forced into it at all. [iIt's his choice.[/i

It also conveniently ignores that last season J Tomkins came of age for example and the presence of any other Wigan produced player in the current side. Likewise it ignores the fact that it is unlikely all the younger players at Saints will make the grade.

We all know the frustration of seeing Noble leave young players out and many of us believe J Tomkins came through despite Noble not because of him but I think it's clear enough where the problem lies and it is not as you or the article suggest in the production line of talent. It is IMO the coach where the problem lies.

Dave

Gardner is not home frown for Saints either. He was signed from Barrow wasn't he?

Dave

Also wasn't Wilkin signed from Hull KR?

I dont know the answer to this, so just throwing it out there, but of the Wigan team that won the WCC against Brisbane in 1994(?), what was the ratio of local players, British brought in and overseas brought in?

OK its getts better - saints 2008 grand final 13

Wellens, Gardner, Gidley, Talau, Meli, Pryce, Long, Graham, Cunningham, Hargreaves, Gilmour, Wilkin, Flannery.

3 Home grown
3 Wigan
1 Bradford
1 Hullkr
1 Barrow
4 Overseas

I think if you look at most clubs in the past they haven't done enough to train and keep young players, but what is important now is that a lot of clubs are making an effort to change that which has to be the best for the game on all levels in the long run.

That is because they know that a good load of youth players coming through gets you an extra franchise point, so the system is starting to work, although still not so keen on the points and stuff, I think more needs to be take into consideration. But it is an easy point bringing young fellas through really isnt it.

Embarassing article that for Wigan - despite any queries regarding the statistics.

When the structures are in place at Academy level (and earlier) then yes it probably is, but first they need to get the structures in place to do bring the players through and to identify the players with potential.

one major reason wigan are not up to the level of leeds and saints on a consistent basis is the amount of overseas players and lack of chance for younger players who play in our team.
Ok, fair enough if you've got an aussie up to the standard of barret; who regardless of his nationality you would want in your team. However, i team is dominated by forreign players who for me arent at the level our team requires, bailey, riddel, phelps, smith just examples of players who i personally would rather have young british talent playing in that position.
Take leeds for example. Young Kallum watkins thrown into the deepend, but it paid off. Why dont wigan give the lines of young ainscough a chance and young talent like tomkins more a first team chance. starting over-rated, over-payed aussies week in week out we are never going to develop as a team. Signing a handful of players every new season isnt going to get us anywhere, it may work in football, but not in this sport. we need to build a homegrown squad and let them develop.

it does not matter were in england players come fromthey can represent great britain unlike 9 players at wigan.

I bow down to your club's interest in doing all things great for British RL!

Putting us on the Back Pages of Sports Papers for Gambling/Drugs etc
For Leon Pryce & His "Ball" Handling skills & his off the field Mis-demenours!
Your players undying commitment to the GB Cause i.e Long & Cunningham!

For giving us Maureen!

For supplying us with 6 or 7 of these Superstars for the 2008 World Cup down under where we performed worse than any other GB Team in Living Memory!

Yeah, Thanks for that!

oh yeah & Jon Wilkin!

were on about foreign players, all clubs have problems most of them are kept in house, come on tell me how many of your team can play for gb

Mathers
Richards yes complain when Mary gets in
Goulding
Fielden
Hock
O Loughlin
J & S Tomkins
McIlloram
Prescott
O Carroll
Coley
Pryce

maury is a british citizen now not an aussie whos had is passport fiddled, we are on about 1st team not fringe players.

Although Irish obviously and not strictly "British" - Pat Richards' entire family are Irish. He was the only child to be born in Australia after his parents emigrated and spent a lot of time in Ireland in his childhood.

Now I would still refer to him as an Aussie - but if you are including Maury then surely you must see how Richards counts on even more satisfying grounds?

Who is fringe apart from Sam Tomkins and Pryce?

Richards dosnt need to become a british citizen matey..his parents are Irish.he could have played for GB without stepping foot into the uk.unlike maury.

he took british citizenship , hence he is now classed as BRITISH richards born ib aus classed as irish not british, you have done the same with carmont. lets call it a day as you cant get round facts.

Brian Carney was Irish but played for Great Britain.

The team is actually GB and Ireland.

Carmont is Samoan not British? And isn't the team "Great Britain and Ireland" like when Carney played?

The 'your' was more you as a club than you personally. As was the post really.



I'm not so sure on that tbh. I'm of the opinion that very few of the young players you've released turned out to be good enough for a club looking to challenge for honours, Wild and Robinson possibly, and Robinson has stagnated and not progressed as I thought he might. You've produced average SL players in the last 10 years for the most part, rather than any of real quality. The quality players you have produced you've kept hold of in Hock and O'Loughlin.

I agree that the coach [iis[/i a problem though, he's been poor in youth development throughout his career. Your current crop of U21s outplayed ours in last years final series, with a number looking better than their Saints counterparts, I wonder how many will get the required game time under Noble for them to make the next step up or at least have a chance of making that step up.

But isn't that par for the course? As John Monie once said if you get two or three players from a champion U21 side that are good enough for the first team you are doing well? Hock, Hansen and Lockers are roughly the same generation of players. Goulding, O'Carroll, Presott and McIllorum are.



It is this season Noble has to prove he is interested in bringing these players on. Most people focus on Sam Tomkins but I think there are other players as well who need at least the odd game even if it just to show they are in the 1st team coaches plans. It is early days yet but has past record has not been good at doing this. Maybe a few bad results would force his hand but I'd rather it be planned rather than desperation if he does bring players into the side.

Dave

I think that Saints have got to this position by a combination of reasons, some of them good planning, some forced by finances, but largely because in the cyclical nature of the game, it is Saint's turn to have some top youngsters, as it was for Wigan when Farrell Radlinski and co came through, and for Leeds when McGuire, Burrow and Mathers came through. The top teams will have times when the dice rolls in their favour, they have to make sure they capitalise on it when it is their turn. And then again, maybe we will get thrumped by Warrington, and the wonder kids will all flop..........