What's the point in having 17 in the team when Hill did not play at all

We really need to sort out the half back situation. French is not a halfback.

And barely passed the ball outside of the middle part of the pitch

#PeetBall

Surely not blaming the referee? Not Wigan!

Because they've been let down by KR and IL, leaving Peet with no one else.

I called it months ago. Another season left to fizzle out because KR is out of his depth. Cooper out for the season, Peet obviously doesn't trust Singo and Mago wasn't wanted during pre season. An injury to say Havard and we're down to looking at guys like Hill having to do a job.

Just bring a prop in FFS. We won't tho. If we pi$$ the players off now, KR won't be able to present them with a bottle of whiskey on a few years time. After all being a fluffy and cuddly "family club with culture" is more important than success on the pitch.

Direct contact to the head red all day for me

In the modern game it is. If that’s right for something that is an accident I’m not sure but at least they’re consistent with them.

Not too often I disagree with you but I couldn't have a more different view on this one. Wasn't the red card part of the stupidity? That's red cards now in the playoff semi final, CC quarter final and CC semi final.

Peet deserves huge criticism for that performance. I actually think there was an air of arrogance and self-indulgence in his interview. No acknowledgement of the issues whatsoever. No attacking cohesion, an unused sub in a wet weather semi final, botching the drop goal attempts, kicking early in golden point, no control of the ball, lazy six agains and the list goes on.

He spoke all week about performing on the big occasion and nailing an 80 minute performance and we fell way, way short.

I thoguht the ref was agiant us second half but no - watching it he was just awful - so many bad calls and incorrect decisions.

We need two things

1 A bloody decent prop - not a project signing , not a young player but just a plain old fashioned good agressive experienced prop who can play more than 15 minutes.

2. To bring somone from outside the club on to the coaching staff, we are so lacking ideas in attack it is untrue , we miss Briers. Even in the first half when we had position in the KR half we looked totally bereft of any ideas. French is not a half (thought he had a very poor game today was barely involved) and neither is Field. Everything goes through Smith and it is so easy to read for the defense.

He’s over-promoted, we all know it. Our attacking ‘shape’ is dreadful, wouldn’t look out of place on a Saturday at Pat’s or Jude’s. There’s tons of things to rip apart from that performance but I won’t blame the team for their effort in defence. Everything else just seems so far off. If we’re honest, we might have even been saved an embarrassment at Wembley. We need a Briers replacement urgently, this jobs for the boys nonsense needs to stop or we will keep losing semi-finals like we did before Maguire came in.

This

No team would ever finish with their full complement if that's a red.

It's actually not even a yellow.

That was not direct it was off the chest first, if anything the Miski one was worse and he got nothing, the pundits reckon the ref bottled it on the Miski one because Shorrocks was a yellow at best.

He doesn't need to be that reckless and give the referee a decision to make. To have a red card in the third big knockout game in 12 months is inexcusable.

Then he should have gone off for a head assessment

I think we've need this for about ten chuffin years. Who was the last prop that fit the above mold? Jeff Lima? Scott Taylor but he was young at the time. George burgess was supposed to be that guy but that didn't work out.

Props win you pots. Has to be priority number 1 for me.

Anything to the head will always get punished Moore bottled the Miski one too

We need balance on those decisions. In the current interpretation of the rules it is a red, but it shouldn't be.

For me, a sin bin.

Red cards should be for intentional, deliberate, malicious contacts to the head.

Shorrocks has put a ball and all big tackle on a smaller player where the impact resulted in contact to the head. He hadnt tried to take his head off. It is a contact sport and one of the joys of the sport is a big hit. We are killing that element of the game with rules like this.

Full credit to KR, but let's not pretend that didn't have a massive influence on the outcome. We were gassed.

I’m convinced I’ll never see a dumber performance than Wakey away, so as I say, that’s not much of a defence for saying today wasn’t as dumb. I can just cut the whole team plenty of slack, that I couldn’t do 2 weeks ago. A man down, in horror conditions and with some appalling reffing decisions (that’s one constant mind) and it would’ve been easy to fall away but the effort was fantastic. I don’t disagree that sadly the smarts just weren’t there but there was absolutely no excuse for that at Wakey, whereas today I can understand it with the fatigue factor. Not giving Harvie Hill any minutes is a head scratcher. If he had that little trust in him, just carry Cust or Hampshire on the bench and cover injuries.

Moore didn’t give the Shorrocks decision!

I've said before on this subject, I follow both codes of the sport and let me tell you these exact same discussions are had across the divide every week about toughening the rules in the modern age around head shots, what is foul play, red cards, etc etc etc. A lot of fans, and even players and coaches, lament about it but this isn't going to change with all the stuff around head and brain injuries and the long term effects of playing rugby, and people need to get real and accept it.

Tackle technique has to change, and this is probably more of an issue for League (traditionally the more collision based version of the sport) than Union, but they're going to have do it. And everyone involved in the sport will have to also accept that unpopular or not this might well mean weaker, softer, more passive defence. Easier to make metres, offload and pass, and so therefore easier to score tries and points. And less of the "biff". That's the journey we're on, I don't see the direction changing.

Harsh or not, Shorrocks was far too upright, was leading more with the shoulder than an arm wrapping tackle, and managed to clout someone in the head. The players adapt, or keep getting red carded.

Mainly though I thought that loss was more about our lack of threat in attack. Yeah it was a wet day, but just one up passive runners as everyone else stood about, then give it to Smith to punt as high as he can in the air, and hope French/Field might eventually come up with some magic, is nowhere near enough. The attacking structure isn't good enough this year, and I don't actually think the biggest problem is not making metres.

And a standoff.

What about Field’s dumb kick over the dead ball line when we were in an excellent position or French’s poor attempt at a drop goal?

We have previous for that.

Spot on Jon. But I would also add that we need more punch in the pack as well.