Someone should Lobby them about it.

It's a pity that the Saints forum on this site is largely ignored in favour of Redvee as theres no way any rival fan would get away with any sensible debate on there (Wiganers especially). I think rival fans add something to discussions most of the time, hence why I remain on here since 2003 when I joined up. Friendly and 'not so friendly' banter over the years and a few disagreements, from clubs of all teams, although many regular posters 'Home and away' have fallen away. I think Saints fans migrated away from RLfans over five years ago, although some like yourself pop back in now and again.

I've never really ventured onto the Warriors fans forum for similar reasons.

I suppose when the St Helens club frames those comments and puts them on a wall at the training ground you will have a strong point.

Not condoning what the (since rightly banned) morons on redvee said, but talk about whatabouttery and false equivalence.

Great idea, poor taste but each to their own - Wigan obviously are happy with it but I must say I'm not sure why they would be.

The same reason Man Utd and the other clubs that have had these done were happy probably.

It's a cartoon strip meant for a bit of fun to show famous images from the club's history. I doubt they wrote to the Palace fan apologising or indeed the Coventry player who is shown snapping his leg into pieces.

I wonder if Phil Bentham wants an apology for appearing on it with a broken leg

Missing the point. The other displays were fan- led and not officially endorsed by the club. Wigan's official club account tweeted this image and I believe someone officially signed it off. That's a big difference.

The only "Big" difference is that Saints fans are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

You could be on to something there

Surely not!

Strange isn't it. Some on here advocate rival fans coming on to give different opinions and then when said rival fans do come on, their opinions are not even considered.

Myself, TYG and FTV have all expressed our opinions (in the right manner I may add, nothing aggressive, foul-mouthed etc) yet because they differ and don't match some Wigan fans opinions, they are derided.

Shame that. And people wonder why other fans dip in and out of here.

Yourself and FTV are good posters mate. Even the giraffe is getting more reasonable recently

If you disagree with someone else doesnt mean derision has occurred just means they disagree with you in their opinion.
It is still part of our history like it or not maybe in bad taste but still part of Wigans history as are the broken leg etc.
They could have done a pic of Mcginis (spell) hitting Tuson from behind or even LMS trying to finger Hock as you were being destroyed in that game but they didnt.
As we know stains fans would have complained about that and would have thrown Wigans foul plays right back at us.

Personally I think that the cartoon is a great idea but personally I probably wouldn't have included the Flower incident with the narrative but for me it isn't "the end of the world" that it was decided to include it. Not being party to the commissioning of the cartoon it's difficult to conclude the why's and wherefore's to the "sign off" however, I suspect it was commissioned as a cartoon and as such the finished product including the Flower incident complies with the very essence of a cartoon albeit, obviously not to everyone's taste. I suppose a little bit like Viz you either love it or loath it.

By the way I enjoy seeing posts from TYG, FTV and yourself. I've no issue whatsoever with your views or how you present them but it would be very surprising that many on here would agree with you on this particular topic as each side has a reasonable and personal viewpoint on the matter and will react accordingly if their opinion is questioned.

How are they not being considered Stu? I think you're mistaking "being considered" with "agreeing with". You're entitled to the first but not the 2nd. As it goes, in this instance I and others agree that we probably wouldn't have included it. However that doesn't make it the right opinion. The alternative view is completely valid too. It's part of our history for better or worse.

Incidentally, I've been on RedVee and I haven't seen you (or FTV or YG for that matter, all of whom I consider good posters) objecting to posters there saying that Hohaia was "unconscious" and that the punch "ended his career" neither of which is true. How come you're offended by views on here to something that actually happened here but less so by the perpetuation of out and out lies over on your own board?

I've no problem with not being agreed with. But since my initial post on the first page of this thread I've had "how high is your horse" "snowflake", "Saints fans making mountain out of molehills, "crying over nothing" etc so not really the same is it?

Secondly, my user name on Red Vee isn't Stu M so you wouldn't know my posts anyway. And FWIW in my opinion Hohaia was out unconscious when the second punch landed, he wasn't moving and had no way of defending himself, not sure how you can deny that? We don't know if that single punch ended his career do we but it didn't help!

If we are being pedantic also, if you watch the game back Flower makes first contact with Hohaia running back which leads to Hohaia's intial (admittedly) cheap shot

But we do know it was over in a split second what i mean it was slowed down to make it far worse than what it was.
We all know it was bad and wished Ben hadnt done as it cost us the game but it is still part of our history. And before my comment gets twisted it was bad and he deserved the ban.

Do you really think United have photos of Cantona kung fu kicking a fan or Keane breaking AIH's leg at the training ground? People seem to be suggesting this is the case - I would be absolutely astounded.

Better ramp up the hate before my dad disowns me.

Not quite correct there Stu. First contact is a late hit in the tackle on Flower (I think this is actually Masoe) which leads to Flower "hitting" Lance (who he clearly thought it was) whilst chasing the kick.

So if we hung it somewhere else that would be ok?

It's a cartoon FFS

Ok. So you admit then that in the Hoahai/Flower altercation then Flower starts it between the two of them....

If the late hit in the tackle wasn't him then yes you have us on a technicality of mistaken identity.

Or in typical Wigan fashion, we picked on the little guy. Thugs, scum etc etc blah blah all hate wigan.

Your opinion is irrelevant Stu, with all due respect. He wasn't unconscious. Go and watch the footage again before commenting further and you'll see he wasn't even unconscious AFTER the second punch, let alone before it. He was raising his right arm before Flower landed the 2nd blow (something you can't do if you're unconscious) and he's clearly conscious whilst the melee is going on after the 2nd punch is landed.

I can also say with absolute authority that the single blow didn't end his career, because the research tells us so. By a quirk of fate I was researching a court case that involved head trauma at the time of this incident and had been studying the research coming out of America on the effects of players in the NFL. The research (which ran into millions of dollars) conclusively concluded that the type of symptoms Hohaia was claiming was not caused by a single impact but by contusions caused across multiple smaller impacts. We already knew that Hohaia had suffered multiple concussions during his career and had to miss many games because of the after effects of these impacts. In addition he played on for 6 months of the following season so unless you're suggesting the Saint Helens club were negligent in their behaviour and hadn't sought or adhered to medical advice and protocols then we can confidently draw the conclusion that this didn't end his career.

If you want to say it didn't help then that's fine. But neither would Saints playing him afterwards. In fact, of the two, I think it fair to say that the latter was worse than the former.

As for the last part of your post; that is the most Saints centric thing I've read and contradicts your objections here. If you think that a push in the back warrants a player running 15 metres to elbow someone in the face, then surely you have no objection to the further escalation that Flower was then guilty of. You can't have it both ways.

Stu: You will not find many posters who will disagree with the fact that the particular part of the image you refer to is in bad taste and, with hindsight, could have been done better. I think the difference is that most posters on here dont think its as big a deal as 'some' Saints fans are making it out to be

Come on mate you're better than that. That's a childsish response. I'm merely pointing out that Hohaia didn't actually "start it" contrary to what Wigan fans say.

Absolutely spot on.
Molehill mountain blah blah blah.