Only feels like five minutes ago I was being berated for questioning the validity of the Brad Singleton love in late last season.

I'm delighted Wigan didn't sign a world class prop in the off-season as it would completely transform your team.

Spot on sadly (for us anyway)

Singleton added to the side (it was hard not too), but at the same time we didn't need a Singleton level player. We needed the player Burgess was supposed to be.

DaveO got shot down on this thread, but he was right that's IL decision not to invest the GB money on another prop could be an error. I realise that some of the cash might have gone to keeping French and Hastings, but tbh, I'd rather have one of those + a topline prop than those two and our current front row.

After that it's criminal we've got Club and Clarke on the books. Nothing you can do about it mid season, or whilst they are under contract but they never should have renewed/signed.

As much as I wanted and still want Clubb and Clarke to go, they’re both under contract. It’s not easy to just release them as there’s fees involved.

I’m happy with Singleton, I think teams need props like him that are just solid in defence and attack. Don’t really do anything special but don’t do a lot wrong either, pretty much like Kyle Amor at Saints or Jason Clark at Warrington.

Do I think we need a [itop class prop?[/i Without a shadow of a doubt, I can’t really fathom why we didn’t sign one in the off season but we do have a tendency to make in season signings. Perhaps a IL is waiting for the prop to become available, the last thing we need to do is another prop signing rush job ala George Burgess. It might hurt us in the short term but I’d rather we sign the [iright[/i prop than the [iwrong [/iprop.

I have got to disagree with regard to his conditioning, Sutty was in top shape in his final season at Wigan. It is not the Australians who should be praised for his transformation but Lee Blundell. Maybe the Warriors should recruit Lee?

I don't think we can justify losing the 2020 Man of Steel or 2021's best attacking player if they're willing to sign for us. Plus we don't know how long ahead they knew for sure that GB was coming off the books. It may well not have left enough time to identify and negotiate with a top prop, then you risk losing one of French/Hastings in the meantime whilst you scour the market. I'm hoping with another year under their belts our young forwards might hold their own better.

I said in another comment that he got himself so much fitter in that last season, ahead of him going to Australia. He looks very different to that now though. Yes he was in better condition but not like he looked at the weekend. He doesn’t look like he’s carrying an ounce of fat anymore.

Whoever was responsible for the turnaround though, I think the motivation was the NRL. He would obviously have been negotiating with clubs going in to that 2018 season and all of a sudden he shapes up. It benefited Wigan in that last season anyway.

I tend to agree with you about Hastings. When we found out that he wanted to stay, then it was always the right decision to sign him up. I'd say the same for 2022 too btw.

It might be controversial, but I don't feel the same about French. I love the guy and he's probably our most entraining player, but I don't think he's as key for us as what Hastings is or what a top prop would be. When you then factor in the signing of Field, who Lam described as French with better hands (loose translation) & Zak as backup we could have let him go.

Ideally we'd have lost Clubb, Clarke and Burgess and had room for everything.

Fair enough. I felt like French was our only chance of scoring at times last season

Definitely. I'm 99% sure this is the reason. It's not IL "not willing to spend the cash" as DaveO crudely tried to allude. If there's not a decent prop available then I'd rather we wait until there is.

In the meantime we need to make our props do some hard work with the ball until we get our outside backs from injury or a big prop signing and then they can go back to getting carried up the field like they have been in the last however many years.

I watched Warrington Leeds from 1994 last night and the first 3 runs in one particular set off of Leeds line were by Fallon, Iro and then Mercer. So a wing, centre and SR. The two props didn't involved until they were 40 from their own line.

So hardly something we have just invented.

Yes our props are poor, but as others have said we need to sign the right prop not just any prop.

Our 'prop problem' highlighted as clear as day in the Saints game today. Power, post contact metres and big minutes from Walmsley and Paasi - throw in Lees and Amor and our front row looks vastly inferior in comparison.

We've gone with a smaller, more durable pack for a number of years and had some success with it but what do you do when you come up against a pack that is big and also durable?

On a side note, a full strength Leeds would have won the game today - Saints very sloppy.

Yeah, a lot of people were convinced that set restarts would completely change the game and make "big men" worthless. Still hasn't happened.

Walmsley is the most dominant player in the league and bigger than any of our players. I dread to think what him, Watts or even Oledski would do to our props in their current form

If any team decides to do what Leeds had to do today and pack their team with forwards, I’d be very worried about what we have to throw back at them.

TBF Walmsley is as big as he is fit. Much like Luke Thompson who seems to have taken to the NRL like a duck to water his fitness, agility and strength is something else. Ironically rather than be hampered by the set restart rule, he thrives on it.

I honestly don’t see how this problem hasn’t been addressed in the off season. No one could argue with Field at the time but in hindsight signing him over a forward (or 2) was a mistake. It sounds like I’m repeating a broken record and in truth I probably am, but if we had forwards half as dominant as Walmsley, Watts, even Cooper we’d be a far, far better side and probably wouldn’t have to wait until 30/40mins to start getting a foothold in games

Speaking of big men, I thought Dudson had a good 1st half Vs wakey. Did about 25 mins and made plenty of post contact metres (something we struggled with last week).

We're at the point that almost any experienced, big guy would probably be our best prop. Sad really.

He did yeah but he certainly isn’t the answer. He’s a poor mans Terry O’Connor.

If we’re going to sign a prop he has to be the right prop. We can’t just sign one for the sake of it to get size in or we’ll end up with props like Pettybourne or FPN again.

Oh I don't think he's the answer, it was more just a comparison that a player many (right or wrongly) don't rate on here is playing against a side we played last week and it looks night and day with how easy he's making yards.

More of a statement about how bad our props are, compared to Dudson being good etc.

In the 25-30 years or so I've been loitering on Wigan forums I can't remember a time when people weren't crying out for us to sign a "big man" up front, even when we've been winning trophies and getting to finals. The answer to our woes has always been a big lump. You would think the likes of Clubb and Bullock are more the size of French than almost exactly the same size as Walmsley the way some people carry on.

were crying out for one

Exactly what we are missing.

In fairness, we signed George Burgess with the intention he would be that marquee top class prop for the club.

Who is available/realistic for us to sign? Singleton & Bullock will only keep getting better as the season goes on IMO.

There’s a real lack of top class options in this country that’s for sure. We’ve wanted Watts for years as fans but even he doesn’t look quite at his best currently. It’ll be somebody from Down Under if we sign anybody this season. I just think it’s so important Lam keeps driving those props we do have to perform and if anybody has an iffy game, give guys like Clark and Kilner a go and make the lads earn their shirts.

Penalties and daft stuff is the thing with Watts. He's been top 20 in the league for penalties every year bar one since 2015. I think he's suited being at clubs where a penalty doesn't lose you a semi or final, and I think it's why we haven't seen him in an England shirt. I'd love someone with his attacking talent without the pens though!

The props from down under seem to come over with not enough tread left on the tyres, I'd honestly be looking to the Championship. There are plenty lads who get released from academies at 19, a decade before their peak as props, who would come for a low wage and maybe be the next Hill/Walmsley/Peacock (I know Peacock didn't come from the Championship but he did debut after he would have been released under the current system).

Whilst I'd love a top / A+ prop, I'd still be more than happy for us to sign someone who fly's under the radar a little & might become that level of player.

Like others have said the prop we all want probably isn't available. Maybe we need to then look at the next level down?

Someone like Corey Jensen at the Cowboys. We got linked with him 18 months ago (around the same time as we signed Clark), but nothing came of it. He's not the gun prop we'd all want, but he'd improve us.