Maybe we do, so what? I dont care what their sexuality is do you? Why should it be issue?

My place of work has never held any LGBTQ events. We dont go to work to celebrate sexuality, it has no relevance to what we are there to do. One of the guys we worked with for years was gay and he used to bring his boyfriend in to help him, nobody cared, why should we? He was treated the same as everybody else.

He may have been treated the same as everyone else by you and your colleagues, but that doesn't mean hes treated the same as everyone else by other people. Thats what its about. LGBTQ events arent about the persons sexuality as such, they are about normalising LGBTQ and supporting a group that has been historically discriminated against to the point of being beaten and even killed just for who they are.

You should actually read [url=https://ibb.co/jrCxSFF[/url

I’ve been wondering how long it would take for some of the opinions that have appeared on the Wigan Today Facebook posts and other outlets to appear on this forum. I guess that’s where we are now with some people feeling more emboldened to share their out-dated and discriminatory attitudes.

This is just not an issue in the UK. In some middle eastern countries you would have a point but in the UK it is a non issue. Of course you will find the odd incident if you search but that is more down to the fact that you have some people with evil intentions walking the streets, the same way people get murdered and beaten for a whole variety of other reasons.

Thats a fundraiser from a facebook group calling themselves BLM UK. That could literally be set up by me in my back garden. They do actually call for the abolishment of police there. I'm assuming they mean defund, or replace with something more useful as they want to do in the US. i doubt they mean they dont want any kind of law enforcement whatsoever, and I'll do some more research into what they mean by that, but for now i will give you that one.

Ask your friend if he thinks its an issue in the UK. one in five LGBT people have suffered a hate crime. two in five trans people. four in five cases go unreported. I wouldnt call it a non issue.

And this is the prime example of what is wrong with society today. You must not dare share a different opinion, you must conform. You are the only one discriminating, against the right of others to have an opinion. I have not discriminated against anybody. All i have argued is that i do not think that rugby league is a place for promoting sexuality preferences or movements that want to abolish the Police and bring down western values.

Thats more to do with them moving the goal posts on what constitutes a hate crime and how they can be reported. Most people regardless of sexuality have suffered some kind of hate crime using todays standards. Just looking at somebody the wrong way can be classed as a hate crime these days and to make it worse, it doesnt have to be the person you looked at that can report it, it could be somebody stood on the other side of the road that was watching.

I know I've made a joke out of one person's backward opinions, but those stats are seriously appalling in 2020. Anything the club can do to help combat that in some small way should be welcomed.

PM me if you wish to discuss further as i dont think here is the right place to discuss BLM in heavy detail, its a rugby league forum after all.

I'm amazed at how many people who are NOT part of a Minority actually know for a fact that it's not a problem in this country anymore.
Strange that.
It's like all the idiots on Facebook with their All Lives matter and trying to make out they're appalled at the defacement of statues of people that were involved in let's say by today's standards some reprehensible activity.
Gas lighting and whataboutism at it's best.
I'm not into uploading photos but today a so called "Friend" on Facebook who had done nothing for the past month than repost the far right/racist agenda actually wrote this and I quote.
All this BLM vandalising our history, it's making more people racist than was ever before".

For an unfortunate reason, I've spent as much time over the last 4 weeks on Facebook than I have in the last 12years since inset up the account.
I'll reiterate what I said to a friend last night, unfortunately it seems that it provides a platform for the loudest 10% (guesstimate) withbthe most extremist of views.

Luckily I will be vastly reducing my viewing of the platform, andnthank God I wont be Brainwashed like some other people will be, because if you only believe a fraction of the rubbish that the people who don't believe minorities are disadvantaged I can see how you would start to believe there want an issue, and perpetuating the cycle as they're now making out that it's the BLM or whoever protestors that are creating in inequality, and the cycle continues.

Not my place to moderate, but I would suggest we keep a real close eye on what gets said here.

If someone doesnt want to put money into a club, fine, and unfortunately it still gives them the same voice as everyone else (and they're not alone as my perception is some of the loudest voices on here and the other site arent the week on week home and away watchers).
If some people need for either their own reason or because they morally feel they should get their money back absolutely fine.
Just neither of the above dont need to go into some BS reason for doing so and in this instance walk a fine line on Social and Equality issues that in reality they have no idea about.
I've been encouraged to hear how many people have said they would not ask for a refund, pull together, and offer support to the club (fundraising etc) and I'll add my weight to that (already thinking of a few ideas). A couple of friends have told me 90% of Facebook and Twitter seems to be the same, even from people who may ask for a refund, they are being positive about the club.

As for the letteseems like a real honest appraisal of the situation and a call for support and help wherever it is possible.

Ancient & [uLoyal[/u I believe we are.

So why bring it up?

Not a direct response to enforcer, just using your post.
Has anyone ever watched the Stewart Lee routine.

"You can get locked up these days, just for saying your English"?

If not, search it and watch, amazing similarities and part of the issue that those who think they're being disadvantaged dont get, the comparisons and parallels they make are just ridiculous at times.

Anyway, told you I'd cost Grimmy some money!!!

You are welcome to share your opinion, no issues at all, I was merely expressing the point that it’s taken a bit of time to be raised here. I probably should’ve said ‘and/or’ but you’ve now openly said you won’t put money into the the club so you’ve pegged yourself as being a bit obsolete in these parts now surely?

So, the letter from IFL.....

Seemed fair to me. Ive no issues with them keeping the money. Its money that was already gone, and im in the privileged position of not needing it. The only thing i will note is the offer of IL or KR ringing to discuss the issue. My wife wants to respond to it just in case she gets to speak to KR

I paid my money in good faith in return for a service (watching the home games). At the bare minimum Lenegan needs to sort out live stream of home games, so at least I feel I have got something for my money.

While I, personally, may not need the money back, if I had a spare £200 lying round would I give it to the club, probably not, there are many worthwhile charities and the level of poverty in Wigan is scandalous. I may choose to spread it round bit or take the family for a day out, but it would at least be my choice.

The average speccie aint on megabucks, the average wage for all employees of the club is £45k.
While players have a short career, I wonder also how many will have the same attitude as Luke Thompson and flatly refuse any paycut?
His situation was spun into being a win-win-win, he leaves early to his larger salary, avoids paycut and club gets well needed transfer fee. Tarnished his reputation for me though.

Lenegan needs to cut his cloth accordingly, make some savings, hope for a charitable windfall, balance that with Govnt and RFL support with also his £500k to ensure the longevity of the club.

I fear for clubs with no benefactor and/or smaller fan base as this will be the death knell or them, there are several in SL and practically all below SL.

I brought it up because the chairman was basically asking for financial help and i felt the need to express my opinion as to why i will not do so. I made my point, and it still stands, i dont think Wigan should be promoting politically motivated groups such as BLM who openly say that one of their aims is to abolish the Police and as long as they do so i will not fund the club. Others dragged LGBTQ into it so i gave an opinion on that too, i dont think RL is the time or place for such matters, i want to watch rugby league not hear about sexual orientation, there are countless places you can go if thats what you're looking for.

Not putting money into the club does not mean i wont follow the team. I still want the team to win, i just refuse to directly give the club my money. Do you have to put money into the club to post your opinions on here?

Tough times ahead, I've been lucky enough to have been working through this and can take the hit regards this years season ticket, sod's law this is the first time in 3 years I've got one, working rotating shifts I have to wait till the fixture list comes out to see if it's viable to get one.
How many regular fans have a job at the end of all this is going to have a massive impact on the club and I suspect "star signings" are a thing of the past for quite a while.
Hopefully we'll come out of this with the club and league still intact but it wouldn't surprise me if some clubs go under once the furlough scheme ends.

Just out of curiosity, how many Wigan games have you actually attended in the last two seasons?

Straight question
Straight answer required.

Do you think Wigan should promote any kind of date such as someone earlier suggested, remembrance day, armed forces day, st George's day, mothers day etc?

The OP you mentioned above was aimed at me, so I hope you don't mind if i answer your question.

Honest answer would be no - I don't think the club should run any of those days, apart from maybe mothers and fathers day and that's only because the cynic in me only sees those as marketing ploys anyway.

Remembrance Day, Pride, St George's Day etc are all somewhat political and in many ways divisive. If I hone in on the Pride angle, then I'll wholeheartedly say that I support gay rights and equality through marriage etc, but I know good people who have been Wigan fans for a hell of a long time that do see this as 'shoving it down their throats'. I wouldn't say they are homophobic, but they are definitely conservative - does this however mean their opinions don't count and it's ok to put aside their feelings & support for another social cause?

Likewise with the BLM cause - I get what they are trying to achieve and I do support that, but does taking a knee almost condone some of the things we've seen over the past few weeks? What about the war vet who (rightly) gets upset at the defacing of some of the war memorials? How does he feel when he sees the team taking a knee? What about the police officers who are fans and also good people, is it a slap in their face to say they are racist? Simplistic I know, but everyone has a different opinion on what's ok and what upsets them.

I'd be happy if they club stayed away from all of it, or just stuck to the community day and celebrated all the groups within the community i.e veterans, LGBT, carer's, local coaches & players in one go.

The reply from enforcer was aimed at me, but put that to one side.

The OP seems intent on telling everyone that he wont be putting his money into the club whilst it supports such "Social Trends".
These are not social trends, they are basic human rights.
Anyone who believes there hasnt, and still isnt any inequalities for minorities is living in dreamland.
The basic response to this is that certain people say they "Dont want it shoved down throats' even though they claim not to be against those minorities.

Now, I'm ok with people not wanting to be involved, not wanting to comment, finding it boring etc.
So why not say nothing? Let other people get on with it? Concentrate on what they find important and not tell other people what they should or shouldnt feel aggrieved and discriminated by.
But what CANNOT happen is that the minorities and inequality is silenced and not spoken about because it may upset what is largely a White/straight etc Majority.

It's strange how those other causes (and Armed forces day gets used as an example a lot) dont draw out those "Majorities" into criticism of those causes.
Why is that? Because that doesnt make them feel as uncomfortable?
Well I know that it may make them feel that way, and it may not be something that they want to talk about, but it Has to happen.
And like it or not it is those "Conservative/old fashioned/traditionalist" or whichever way you can to describe it attitudes that need to change, not the minority/inequality voices.

I come from one those old fashioned, traditionalist backgrounds, looking back a lot of uncomfortable things spring to mind. Nothing bad, just the odd thing, but that's how the world was back then. I'm not the same person I was 30 years ago and have had to learn more about other peoples issues.

But quite rightly it isnt anymore. And no-one has any excuse not to be part of that change. Even if that is just allowing those minorities to have a little more of a voice after hundreds of years of oppression etc.
I keep hearing posters say they haven't got a problem and they arent Homophobic or racist or whatever, and maybe they arent in the true sense of the word. But by asking those minorities to "Be quiet", or ask our clubs not to help or assist in advancing the fight for equality and acceptance we are in effect adding weight to those that dont want that to happen.
You bring up defacement of statues, personally I dont agree with that.
Same as I dont agree with any kind of violence, looting or whatever. There are relatively small numbers on both sides who are using the causes whether that is right and left or black and white But that doesn't take away from the basic principal of the cause.
But comparing the defacement of statues and someone being upset about it IS NOT THE SAME as a minority being discriminated, abused or murdered because of how they were born.

Certain people dont want to contribute any money to the club , fine.
To blame it on the club being part of the advancement of equal rights for all is just pathetic.
Say nothing if they want, but dont stir up I'll feeling to minorities and blame them for you (and I dont mean you personally) not wanting to support the club any more
Because that says more about those individuals than it says about Great club
If our club refused to get behind such things I would be ashamed.

Grimmy may need his season ticket money back to pay for his donations.
I promise I wont enter any further debate about this particular issue, but if anyone posts BS reasons for it that lay the blame at a minority or do the same on any other subject I'll call it out.