We need someone on a 3-4 year deal who will actually see out the full 3-4 year deal to complete the job and not work miracles in season 1 or 2 and leave.

I’m sure he knows exactly what he’s doing. Let’s face it, he’s a multi millionaire businessman who has vast experience of running sports clubs. I’m a lowly, hardworking man who enjoys watching sport so I’m quite sure he knows more about running the club than I do, or most other ‘expert’ fans on here for that matter.

They couldn't stand leneghan when he turned the club around from a shambles to a Trophy winning team in 2 years and then led them to 8/9 Trophies in the next 8 seasons

Why would they let him off the hook now (When clearly things have gone wrong and yes he has to shoulder some of the blame).

But said it over and over, if you keep looking for fault you'll find it even if it's not there
This has been coming for about 4/5 years and the people who targeted Wane/Radlinski/Leneghan to different degrees and constantly tried to rip the club apart (And to be fair told us that all 3 of them were Rubbish/Corrupt/Pocketing Money and many other slanderous things) got their wish and now they're right.

They now want Mythical people to take over (AKA known as Multi millionaires who must be banging Leneghans door down to take over a club where it's own fans spend an unhealthy amount of their time trying to find something wrong even if it's not there) who if they do take over will have to pump large amounts in (Like Leneghan has done) only to be told by untold Business & Sporting experts that they're doing it wrong

Some people must enjoy watching a team play poorly and languish towards the bottom of the table whilst probably singing the ‘Everything is Awesome’ song whilst they hand over their money week after week.

I think Lenagan (and Radlinski's for that matter) biggest issue is that they have become complacent with the one thing that an owner should never do and that's the fan base.

Look at the early days of his ownership and the communication and engagement with the fans is at least 3 or 4 levels above what it is now. We had fans forums and similar events where the direction and vision of the club were being outlined, fast forward to now and that has all gone. Granted people may have asked daft questions, or may/may not have agreed with what was being said - but at least there was a level of honesty and transparency given to fans.


Whether you agree or not with the merits of moving games to Millwall and Australia, those decisions alienated sections of the fan base, especially since the rationale for moving the games doesn't appear on the surface to have materialised in any way that they expected. It may well have done, but then again the subsequent benefits have never really ever been outlined so I can understand why supporters are still cheesed off about it given their outlay on season tickets.


Leading onto season tickets, what a joke it is when I can buy my World Club Challenge tickets cheaper on Wowcher than I can using my season ticket holder discount or in season discounts make the in year saving on a season ticket less and less worthwhile.

Key to any Rugby League club given the perilous state of finances should be ensuring the existing supporter base is encouraged to return week after week as its far harder to attract them back than it is to retain.


Finally, and its one that is only fair to recognise that during Lenegan's tenure that the success has been great (and with a bit of luck could have been even greater) but to rely on past successes is also a sign of complacency as only well we know that its not to be taken for granted.

Regardless of past successes, look at the current policy of letting our "stars" move on to Australia whilst in contract and the subsequent bargain basement recruitment and its like history repeating itself, and we seem to be falling into the same trap as we did in the late 90's and mid 000's and as others have done more recently. History is great, but that's all it is … History, a sporting clubs needs to be moving forward all the time or else it all ends and the fans ebb away, eg. Saints signing players like Jack Owens, Matty Dawson - guess what they stopped winning trophies crowds went down, Leeds replacements like Mullalley, Jordan Thompson, Myler, Donaldson - guess what the trophies have dried up crowds have gone down, Wigan signing Sammut, Hankinson etc ......…

Whilst Lenegan has done great since he has been here, I do feel that he and the powers that be do need to get a grip on certain elements of the club that seem to have floundered in the past couple of years, and in this I include marketing & communications, getting the best backroom staff and not just people with a Wigan accent and ensuring that a contract means a contract and not a transfer fee opportunity.

Couldn’t agree more. Other teams could only dream of the success Lenagan has brought us over the last 10 years, the only team who can rival it being Leeds.

He’s pumped great deals of his own money into the club. Tried a number of initiatives (some successful, some less so) to promote the team/wider game. We’ve won the academy grand final is it 9 years out of 10 and the first ever woman’s super league.

People have called for his head throughout the periods of success. And now seem pleased that now there’s an excuse to bash him, they feel justified. The same people often mentioning that they won’t go to the game because we aren’t winning, or in previous years, winning but not playing well enough.

Spot on especially with regards the quality of player signings. I know some fans have blind faith and would back Peter Sutcliffe to the hilt if he had a Wigan shirt on. You can’t expect people not to criticise the club, what are we? East Germany? North Korea? Jesus wept.

Or the ones who are most the negative, most vociferous moaners, who DON'T hand over their money every week but continue with their negativity from the comfort of their bar-stools or armchairs. Somewhere in the middle is probably right.

Yet you criticise other posters who have a different opinion to you and call them happy clappers?
Is your world North Korea or East Germany then?

Seems like your only allowed an opinion if it matches the negative Pitchfork brigades view of things.



I don't "Enjoy" watching it, and anyone who saw me for 3/4 hours after the game on the coach or in Calella will testify how "Down" I was.
However, you dust yourself down and move on, try to be constructive and think Long Term
I'm not a Lam fan, but sacking him without having a Plan of what to do next is not the answer.
He's been dealt a few band hands, but he also had 6months or so to plan for this and some of our play is truly awful
As I searched in the early hours of Sunday morning for the right words the only 2 I could think of over and over again are Amateurish and "Soft".
Soft in particular bugs me - Soft culture, soft underbelly, Soft approach to everything we do etc. etc.

So what's happened?
I don't know and won't pretend I know All the answers, but working Harder & getting behind each other has to be the start.

One coach who gets raised as an example over & over again is Maguire and people who are inside the dressing room tell me that the perception that he was a master coach whilst Wane is a Bully etc. say it couldn't be more the opposite.
But to take a speech from Maguire that was his Pre-Match Wire CC game in 2011

"Run F***ing Harder than them, Tackle F***ing Harder than them"
And when asked how many years at coaching school did it take to learn that gave the answer "It's a pretty simple game".

It's like we've forgotten this bit and concentrated on the coaching manual and focussed on all the Nicey Nicey bits.

Anyway

I’m not against people with the opposite opinion no, but when the majority of posters who replied were telling me everything is fine, things will work out, give Lam time etc I get it but blind faith won’t work with this issue. I may be the solitary parochial moaning sod but attendances and league position backs up my claim.

The docked points wouldn’t have helped, neither would the recruitment that he probably played no part in and the Edwards debacle would have surely affected the players because of all the uncertainty and it’s shown in league position and the noticeable attendance drop.

I’d give Lam time, accept all those reasons why we aren’t doing as well as we previously have done and accept we are transition IF we looked like a team that knew what they were doing but we don’t, the players look lost on the field, they are trying individually but not as a group. Some players look as though they don’t want to be there and show it in their performances. But don’t say the players read all the negativity on these boards and that’s why they’re playing like they are because that’s more excuses for them.

I know you quoted Madge but those words of wisdom are quite fitting because that’s exactly what we need for starters at the minute but aren’t getting.

I gave Lam time, I accepted all the reasons stated above but after watching game after game the areas in which we are lacking can be fixed by good coaching within a couple of months, but nothing has changed. And for that reason, Lam cannot carry on as head coach IMO.

And if people think Chairmen only start looking for a coach when they need one are dreaming, if they think they only approach coaches once the previous coach has gone they’re dreaming too.

Before we can improve the Clubb needs to sort out who will be permanent coach from next season and what’s going on with Williams.

Now forgive me - But a lot of what you put across is pointing the finger at Lam - And I agree

A few of the other things (The 2points, Hardaker/Mullen/Williams/Edwards, especially Edwards) are providing a bit of a smokescreen for me at the moment and although Yes, they shouldn't have happened for whatever reason the truth is This Bunch of players look lost at times
And in my previous words Amateurish & SOFT (not just physically, but mentally & culture wise).
Lam is responsible for a lot of this and He needs to get this right.
He knew the score when he took the job,

Deluded Leneghan is the tile of the thread but he said this prior to Saturday & I think it was a Lazy piece of reactionist posting
If he says it after another good hiding Saturday then maybe I'll agree

But if someone does what Leneghan has over 10 years at Wigan then he deserves a bit of slack after a poor spell IMO (Which I agree he has had over the last 12months).

Lam has yet to do the positive things that deserve that slack IMO

The fans themselves though, to use a phrase I use time to time, Will get what they deserve.
Our Season ticket prices are comparably some of the Best in the country
Our facilities are pretty good (Overall - Not the we don't own the stadium conversation etc.)
Our playing Roster were champions last year and 3 x players replaced
Tomkins - Most liked him, Some didn't; - But Hardaker was a Good replacement (And trust me, Tomkins going was His decision and only based on 1 thing and I don't blame him - And that's virtually from the Horses mouth). Overall as good a replacement as we could have got?
Bateman - Replaced by Greenwood (And please don't start the Greenwood was already here, we only got him in because of Joel leaving etc.) - How do we keep Bateman? He wanted to go etc. I would suggest
Sutton - Replaced by Bullock - Lots of people slagged Sutton and now only realise what they are missing - Bullock gets more positive praise so surely that's not a big change (I think it is but that's a different story).

Top line is, if the fans don't turn up then choices have to be made
And if the vociferous ones on all platforms of social media do nothing but continually run the club down year after year, day after day, what chance have we of increasing the positivity around the club and get more fans in. It's a 2 way street.

I'll be there at Anfield Saturday, and I'll be there next game and game after.
The more people that do that and the more positivity around the things the club is doing right (Which I get will be harder than it was 12months ago) the better.
I just can't think of another club that has had as many things to be positive about that has had to deal with the criticism that Leneghan and Wane previously have had to deal with
Even the successful players Like Tomkins/Burgess/Gildart/Williams etc. get it week in week out for varying reasons - I don't get it
It's like some people don't want them to be successful and take pleasure in wanting them to fail for various reasons.

Anyway

was good to see you in Barcelona pal

And you and your Dad pal!
With a smile on my face (But then again that was Pre-Match)
I was slightly demoralised for a couple of hours post game, so we cracked open the San Miguel on the coach and then went back to Calella to blow the Froth off a few more until the early hours!!!
Even went back to the Hotel about Midnight, couldn't sleep so got dressed again and went back out for a few more so we could dissect everything!!!!

We go again Saturday - Anfield here we come!

Title of the thread was because Lenagan was saying Lam is favourite for the job, I call that deluded given our worst start to a season ever and apart from catalans and 1/2 a game against Castleford we have looked like you said soft and amateur. So how does Lenagan see that Lam could possibly be favourite? Despite Lam only signing a 12 month deal, why has there been no word on interviewing a new coach or searching for one? Even if Lam is doing well shouldn’t they interview him too?

enjoy pal

Can't let the above slip by



IL reneged on the agreement with S Tomkins re his marquee salary and asked him to take a pay cut. He then blathered on, to the press, about him still being one of the highest paid players trying to excuse himself from doing so. Unacceptable and unprofessional. My employer asks me to take a pay cut on an agreed contract I'd look elsewhere as well. As to Hardaker being a good replacement it's a great example of signing a good player but one who is a different type of player with different strengths and weaknesses and we have been missing Tomkins organisation skills and how he was able to link up all season.

It is absurd to say Greenwood replaced Bateman. They were BOTH instrumental in getting us to the GF and BOTH played in the victory. Bateman was "replaced" by Faz playing on the wrong side of the pitch for him and looked like a fish out of water before he was injured. No one is saying we could have kept Bateman but he has not been replaced. IL and Rads obviously thought they could get away with Greenwood and Faz but have been found out on that score. We are desperate for a true replacement for Bateman to play alongside Greenwood in our powder puff pack.

As to Bulluck, he's not as good as Sutton was when he was here never mind at Canberra. A good prospect but again the replacement is not as good as we had before.

It's not just about replacements though its about squad management. The issue of Lockers replacement has been going on for years. Both him and TL should have been fond memories by now and several other players just memories! Instead the club keeps handing out new deals to players who ought to be shifted out or are average like Powell. There seems to be no desire to seek constant improvement (which is how it used to be at Wigan) such as when a players contract is nearing an end they just give him a new one rather then looking for a better player. If IL is not deluded about Lam then I think he is deluded as to how good the current squad is.

same with Gelling and Sarge, MM wasnt replaced either nor Joel Tomkins

Spot on. Especially with regards Greenwood replacing Joel Tomkins but then somehow being labelled as a replacement for Bateman as if we’re all that thick to believe that.

Now, is Tony Rea our man scouting all our players because we keep signing those London Broncos type of players who are average grafters and inexpensive?

If Bateman stays then I don't think we sign Greenwood.

The start of last season our back row options were Faz, Bateman, SOL with Isa and Joel as backup. Gabe Hamlin then steps up and gives us that unexpected option that Smithies is turning into this year.

Once we knew Bateman was going we had to replace him so we chose Greenwood. Problem being we needed to sign him asap or we would have lost him. Same as Matty Smith in 2012 as replacement for 2013. Therefore Joel had to go. We now have Faz, Greenwood, SOL with Isa and Gabe. Losing Gabe highlights the injury to Faz.


As for Zak and Sam, Zak is a better FB than Sam every day of the week and twice on a Sunday. We have replaced Sam the FV. What he isn't though is a better leader or all round player than Sam and it is that aspect of Sam's game that we are missing and haven't replaced. The guy who manages the game clock. Williams can't do it and Tommy has been all over the place. Sammut will hopefully take that mantle but again he is nowhere near the level Sam is and is definitely not a replacement.

Bullock was not meant as a direct replacement for Sutty as we promoted Navarette. Our 4 props last year were Flower, Clubb, TT, Sutty with Navarette as 5. This year it was Flower, Clubb, TT, Navarette with Bullock as 5. Navarette has been awful from.his first carry and everyone else has been injured.

he just isnt

Lam has excelled himself imo based on the squad....or lack of it, he aquired.
I expected Wigan to be bottom 4 this season.

Me neither


Bateman doesn't leave we don't get Greenwood
Joel tomkins situation allowed us to move in early for Greenwood
Joel's place is one of those taken up by the increases in youth wages (which has gone too far and I've said previously that were holding on to to much youth for too long, but it's a fine line that usually we get right).

As for tomkins
If you want to look at my post or posts as happy Clapper putting positive spin on things then as much as I may do this then I feel your posts are doubly that on the negative side.

Sam had 12 months of his existing contract left at "x" wages.
The club wanted him to sign an extension to that and offered a revised contract that may have dropped his wage for this year (when he would have ONLY been on the 3rd highest wage structure the club had ever given out) but would have had 3 years security).

The issue was that catalans had already come sniffing and you can believe me or not, over the 3 years and although the difference hes being paid gross is not that different to what he was on or being offered at Wigan the structure of his he is paid Net is incomparable.
Roughly hell get in 3 years what he would get in 2 at Wigan and unfortunately we cant match that.
The personal side of the deal in going to the south of France was also a personal choice.

Now you can wrap that up, look at at negatively against the club (which you nearly always do) but I KNOW that there is no malice on either side and if Wigan had held him to the last 12 months he would have stayed, BUT the opportunity for both parties the year after were more difficult and harder decisions would have had to have been taken down the line than under this arrangement.

As usual the rest is a lot of guess work and spin and putting words in the people you are criticising mouths which usually makes assumptions about what they've done or why they've done it to put them in a negative light. If you want to "Make Wigan Great Again" and pine for a yesteryear that stopped working nearly 20 years ago then fine.
I agree they've got a lot of things wrong iin the last 12 months, but the level of criticism of certain coaches and officials at Wigan over the past 10years of their tenure has been WAY over the line and often slanderous.
And even a Blind Squirrell will find a couple of nuts once in a while.

And we all know it cant be Lams fault and any criticism must now be diverted away from him, as if it wasn't we may have to actually give Wane some credit for what he did over the last 6/7 years and that wouldn't do would it.




Tin hat now on and prepares for retaliation fire!

It really makes me laugh when people try and say Greenwood replaced Bateman, in that case who replaced Joel? Greenwood again? He must be able to make duplicates of himself like Doctor Manhattan from Watchmen.

Who did he replace? He can’t do both. But like Jukesays, Joel’s money was swallowed up by contract extensions, I don’t believe that for 1 minute. Joel would have been on decent money coming back from Union, £130k I reckon and there’s no way that’s been swallowed up. That’s been the excuse for years with where all the money has gone ever since we thought once Vaealikis contract ran out we would have big money to spend, then Fieldens contract then Sams and every year we seem to have fewer players or perceived less wages.

Either someone is bad at negotiating at the club and is paying players more than they should be, or the squad is too large and chocked full of wasted cap space through injuries or we are being lied to about how much cap space is available and someone is doing a Daniel Levy.

Essentially nobody replaced Joel. Gabe Hamlin stepped up to take his place in the options for the back row and a few extra young lads were given a shot. Then his money was given to people like Tom Davies who signed new deals.

2018 - Cap spend 100%
2019 - Cap spend 100%

How do you think we sign players on contract extensions or on new deals without freeing some space up by losing players such as Joel who as you say are high earners but in the grand scheme of things are ?