This is far from the biggest debate - or problem - at the club but Liam Marshall should be nowhere near a Wigan shirt. It’s all opinions of course but mine is that he’s nowhere near good enough. Decent finisher - as he has proven - but the rest of his game is Widnes standard.

I find it truly odd that our wingers are getting stick, if fans think wingers are the issue then I really do wonder. It is quite clear that the issue lie elsewhere, props, 7 and 9 - basically the spine of the team, are way off the standard required and getting worse. Sort these out and the team would look much better. Also bear in mind that our first choice wingers would under normal circumstances would be Burgess and Manfredi - and I am sure they would be classed as good enough. Difficult for any winger to look good in the current team as I cannot recall any decent passes to them for a long time.

There's nothing wrong with Marshall, but that money could be better spent on a 1, 6, 7 or 9.

Well I recall before the Lam/Edwards thing was announced his name was put forward as a replacement coach in is own right by some. I was not convinced due to the fact he has never been a head coach.

I'll put forward my [utheory[/u. Lam either worked out or was told by the Wigan management the Wigan fans were fed up with the style of play under Wane. Either way his mission became instantly to change it despite the fact the club just lost Sutton, Tomkins and Bateman and has also lost Mcilorum. Given he is only supposed to be here for a year and given the playing personnel available, changing the way the team played was far too ambitious. His job is in theory to keep the seat warm for Edwards. So all he had to do was keep the players playing the same way. It might not have been successful this year nor pleased the fans but that was not likely given the loss of key players anyway. Instead it seems for whatever reason he has tried to change things quite radically.

It doesn't matter if Edwards comes or not. The problem is the radical change coupled with the loss of top players. If Lam has any sense he will get together with the players and say the supposed new style is out of the window for now and he needs then to play to their strengths. It's no skin off his nose if he does. He's only here for a year but that last thing he needs is for that year to see Wigan in a relegation fight.

Maybe he saw this year as a way to enhance his coaching CV but if he did he misread how far losing those players mentioned above would affect the team.

We've clearly stopped doing whatever it is Wane had them doing in training RE: the defence. It's baffling as that was the best part of our game - you'd think if everyone around the club has been coached that way for 8+ years you wouldn't lose that knowledge with Wane going out the door.

Lam was on a hiding to nothing because two of our three best players left in the offseason and the third is 36 and his powers are waning. The attack was this awful at times last year too, but Tomkins and Bateman often took the team by the scruff of the neck and made things happen.

On a 1? Have you been watching with your eyes shut? Hardaker has been practically flawless under the high ball and in defence and is adding to his attack more every week. He’s the least of our worries!

I’m not sure we can keep going back to the 3 players who left as a valid excuse for our form. Bullock (so far) has added as much if not more than Sutton gave us, Hardaker is probably as good a fullback as we could possibly have got to replace Tomkins and Greenwood whilst he isn’t Bateman, has been superb since day one.

The only good thing Hardakre did against Huddersfield is that clean break.

He ducked out of scooping up the ball in the first half (luckily we survived) when it required him to be brave and dive at the feet of a couple of onrushing Giants, he misjudged several kicks - one he clearly didn't have a clue where it was and was turned around and provided nothing in attack.

At this point I'd move him to C and put Escare at FB - and I'm not a big fan of Morgan at FB either (he's bad defensively), but at least his pace causes problems.

If all you took from my post is the comments about the players that left you ignored at least half of it.

However I will bite about the players bit while you go and think about the rest it

The idea Bullock has added more than Sutton is absolute nonsense. Sutton was a key player last season once he came back from injury. If you do not think he was, you were not watching. Bullock is a good prospect but the idea he is like for like now is just not right.

Hardaker may be as good as we could have got but he isn't Sam Tomkins and plays a different game. He is not the leader Sam T was. It's already blindingly obvious we do not have the tactics to make the best of Hardaker.

As to Greenwood and Bateman. Greenwood was NOT his replacement. They pay on different sides for a start. They are both very good players but in case you missed it we had both of them in the back row for most of the run in to the playoffs last season and they both played in the GF. So the idea Greenwood replaced Bateman misses the fact we had arguably the best 2nd row in SL with the pair of them in it. Not just Greenwood as we have now.

These players leaving is significant. Lam is reduced to playing Faz (when fit) on the right which is the wrong side for him because Bateman left.

So I go back to what I said before. With all the changes in playing personnel being as significant as they are, trying to play a different game is too ambitious from Lam.

Spot on but Bateman was by far the biggest loss. His contribution every week was immense. Greenwood was not really his replacement, he replaced Joel Tomkins. Last year we lost two right siders and signed one left sider.

I wish fans would stop referring to Lam 'getting a bad deal' with our squad. Instead of comparing our squad to last seasons compare it to Cas' or some of the other teams who are playing far better rugby than us. Some other SL coaches would love the talent we have in our squad, and quite frankly would get them performing better. Daryl Powell anyone?

Why waste a wish on that when you could have wished for those players back?

doesn't make any sense.

Why not provide a response rather than criticising with a silly emoji? Or is that not an option?

That was what I was trying to point out.

Whilst I do think Lam needs to be cut SOME slack, I totally agree. The team is littered with quality and multiple grand final winners, they just aren’t playing like it. Anyone using our squad as an excuse is simply that, an excuse.

Hardaker, Gildart, Manfredi, Williams, Leuleuai, O’loughlin, Flower, Greenwood. There’s some real quality there.

Exactly. I'd cut him some slack if we were looking decent, a competitive winning side who were still off perhaps the likes of Saints or Wire, but that's not the case, we're terrible.

A discussion is always better when people... discuss.

Smell the custard.
The pack has no quality depth...something that needs to extend beyond even the bench.
Even the most senior players have been sporadic, with the star signing spending more time off the pitch that on it.
That pack is desperate for another quality prop and running back rower.

Shall I tell you what is wrong with that statement?

After reading your recent responses my genuine thoughts are... 'who cares'.

Of course it's a place for discussion, so you honestly don't have to ask for my permission.

Do you think the team/squad is as good as it can be? And we need to sign more players to place anything higher than joint bottom?

While I think we need new additions to be a GF winning team, I think there's well enough quality to be at very least competitive.

For a Wire fan you certainly spend a lot of time on the Wigan forum. Though this only seems to be of late, which could coincide with Wigan’s current form.

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... -1-9641544 He's sounding very much out of his depth with his comments in the press That being said... it is amazing what a win can do and the momentum that can bring/change in mood. Huge match this week at Wire.

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... -1-9641544 He's sounding very much out of his depth with his comments in the press That being said... it is amazing what a win can do and the momentum that can bring/change in mood. Huge match this week at Wire.