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| The club have actively been trying to retain the existing group of players with Smith, Williams, Powell and Sutton signing four year deals. They are also negotiating with Charnley, Gelling, Sarginson and Hampshire. That's almost our first 17 backs and half backs together with one of our most talented young props.
If they retain the last four then Joe Burgess will be the only one deciding not to stay.
Trying to keep to a salary structure so a large squad can be assembled and retained can't be easy with a salary cap as low as SL's.
As much as I'd liked Burgess to stay I'd far rather they keep those they are still in negotiations with as we have Manfredi as a very good replacement.
I do hope we can re-sign Charnley, Gelling, Sarginson and Hampshire as they are all very talented rugby players who I want to see playing at Wigan rather than anywhere else.
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| Quote ="stillinthepast"Joe may have looked at or spoken to Sam Burgess and realised the move to Aus at this time could be a far more lucrative way to get into Union.'"
...and a lucrative way to ruin a promising career...
(on both counts!)
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| Quote ="jonh"
The only way SL is going to get stronger is by raising the profile of the game in the UK. The only way to do that is produce a successful International side. Looking short term the NRL is the best route to accomplish this for developing our players.'"
I don't think it will though. It [imay[/i do it if the entire squad was based there, twenty-odd players playing first grade NRL on a regular basis but I really can't see that happening but if it did just what sort of naff competition would we have here domestically?
The alternative is to have some players in the NRL and the rest in SL as we do now and this puts the national side at a distinct disadvantage from the off regardless of the quality of the players.
As to raising the profile in the UK just what are the tangible benefits of that going to be? The RFL have locked the game into a Sky deal for several years for far too little cash and I don't expect Sky to start offering more money if England win a series. Who else will?
My view is (and always has been since the entire game went full time) is that it is all about money and crucially that you can't run a pro sport on the cheap but that is what the RFL are trying to do (largely because they are too inept at securing enough revenue IMO but also because they spread the cash too thinly with the new structure).
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| He wont be missed too much. He was good last year but wasnt really outstanding. If a 27 year old had done what he did people wouldnt be talking him up half as much. Realistically he's had a good season for his age but so did Shaun Ainscough a few years ago for us. I imagine this deal being a disaster like Matty Russell's was. He'll go over hoping to emulate the other Burgess's and in fact he'll end up playing in front of 20 people and a dog in the Roosters B team in the NSW cup. Give it a few weeks and he'll be homesick and desperate to come back to England. He'll sign the only offer he can get from an English club with room on the salary cap (probably Wakefield).
Hopefully Wane will see sense and ship him up to Workington now and Manfredi can prove that he's a far better winger (especially in defence!!).
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| Quote ="Pacific"He wont be missed too much. He was good last year but wasnt really outstanding. If a 27 year old had done what he did people wouldnt be talking him up half as much. Realistically he's had a good season for his age but so did Shaun Ainscough a few years ago for us. I imagine this deal being a disaster like Matty Russell's was. He'll go over hoping to emulate the other Burgess's and in fact he'll end up playing in front of 20 people and a dog in the Roosters B team in the NSW cup. Give it a few weeks and he'll be homesick and desperate to come back to England. He'll sign the only offer he can get from an English club with room on the salary cap (probably Wakefield).
Hopefully Wane will see sense and ship him up to Workington now and Manfredi can prove that he's a far better winger (especially in defence!!).'"
I was thinking of ainscough when I submitted my most previous response on page 5 regarding the "cockyness" joe has shown (in a good way) and how wane loved that about him as he had the audacity to go out there and almost show off his insanely young skills to us all. ainscough had all the attributes to be a great star for many years; he had the skills, speed and swagger that us wiganers love from a back. unfortunately he got too cocky for his own good and things didn't work out for him one way or another. a big shame really, he would have been an immense player had he kept composed and not thought he was bigger than tom cruises' bank balance. although I can't comment on what or why his wigan career ended, I'm just summising.
I'm worried the same could happen with burgess but from what I hear his feet are a little more firmly on the ground so perhaps not, but it does cause concern.
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| Quote ="WiganBurt"I was thinking of ainscough when I submitted my most previous response on page 5 regarding the "cockyness" joe has shown (in a good way) and how wane loved that about him as he had the audacity to go out there and almost show off his insanely young skills to us all. ainscough had all the attributes to be a great star for many years; he had the skills, speed and swagger that us wiganers love from a back. unfortunately he got too cocky for his own good and things didn't work out for him one way or another. a big shame really, he would have been an immense player had he kept composed and not thought he was bigger than tom cruises' bank balance. although I can't comment on what or why his wigan career ended, I'm just summising.
I'm worried the same could happen with burgess but from what I hear his feet are a little more firmly on the ground so perhaps not, but it does cause concern.'"
Yeah, Ive seen comparisons with Ainscough and him on social media as well. Very different players but a danger of peaking too early on the wing? I remember Saints fans saying Jamie Foster would be a future Golden boot winner 5 years ago - look where he is now, clubless!! My old account on here I remember people saying we should have kept Ainscough as he was a future "star". Look how he's ended up!! Wing is an easy position to play for anyone and that might be why young kids are seen to do well there but struggle later in their career.
Either way Id still rather have Manfredi over Burgess any day. From what Ive seen Manfredi doesnt have the huge defensive errors in his game that 'Budgie' (*Cringe*) is prone to.
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| Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"Cheers. Again, no reason to doubt you or your source.
It does seem an odd state of affairs. I understand why you and others wish him all the best. But whilst part of me wishes that too - part of me is annoyed at him and his advisers. This season will be a real test for him. The minute things start to go wrong (if they go wrong), he will be on a hiding to nothing with the fans.
It leaves me wondering how Leeds have managed to keep Ryan Hall (who simply must have had NRL offers) happy. His many international tries, often against Australia, plus Super League and Challenge Cup successes, have been enough for him.'"
If you believe what Roosters are saying ([urlhttp://www.nrl.com/burgess-boost-for-nrls-roosters/tabid/10874/newsid/83490/default.aspx[/url) then it was a done-deal in the middle of the year & was planned from last February.
As said previously, I wish the lad well & if he does get game time he'll be an asset in the internationals. It's chicken & egg, without better international performance we can't hope to get coverage & money, without an increase in the SC we can't hope to retain kids in the UK, let alone in League.
Although this is a bit rich: [urlhttp://tinyurl.com/pdpeger[/url
And hasn't Hall just got hitched? Maybe his missus is scared of flying.
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| Quote ="Finfin"Players moved in both directions then as the seasons overlapped. GB were very competitive. Thanks to Micron Video all the Aussie games were available, pubs put on Aussie matches to full houses. Aussie RL magazines were on sale at Smiths. They weren't out of sight at all.'"
Well, I'll take your word for that, bearing in mind I don't live in the 'heartlands' (far from it!), but my simple point was that I'll bet the NRL has many more English viewers now than it had 20-30 years ago. As I'm a Sky hatah, I've seen more NRL than ESL in recent years, and I daresay I'm not the only one.
But on Burgess, yes, I was a bit surprised at the idea that he'd walk into the Roosters first team. So in place of Daniel Tupou? Whether this is tied in with the idea for RT-S replacing Mini at full-back? But of course they've bought Blake Ferguson as well...
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| Good luck to Joe Burgess.
Who can blame him for going for the Sydney lifestyle and to play in the best RL competition in the world.
And I believe that the Roosters see him as a full back and not as a winger, along the lines of the fast, big striding, large and strong number ones that play in the NRL.
You read it here first!
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| They seemed keen to trial RT-S there last season. And NRL full-backs are hardly all massive; Minichiello, Barba, Sam Tomkins, even.
Be interesting to see, anyway. If nothing else, it adds interest to the NRL for English fans, seeing our players perform down there.
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| Quote ="moto748"They seemed keen to trial RT-S there last season. And NRL full-backs are hardly all massive; Minichiello, Barba, Sam Tomkins, even.
Be interesting to see, anyway. If nothing else, it adds interest to the NRL for English fans, seeing our players perform down there.'"
Fair point.
RT-S is imo a much better winger than JB.
I see JB more as a full back in the GI mould.
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| I would like to wish Burgess all the best of luck with his move to the NRL next year and for moving out there so soon
IMO he would have had a great career at Wigan judging by his early promise shown thus far, but he has decided to move out of his comfort zone and move to the other side of the world to put his name into the hat for a starting spot at the Roosters which is not a certainty
As an outsider looking in i would question why so many Wigan players are quite happy to jump ship at any given opportunity and try their luck in either the NRL or Rugby Union
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| RT-S is a better winger than just about anyone, to be fair.
Quote ="Northern Boys"I would like to wish Burgess all the best of luck with his move to the NRL next year and for moving out there so soon
IMO he would have had a great career at Wigan judging by his early promise shown thus far, but he has decided to move out of his comfort zone and move to the other side of the world to put his name into the hat for a starting spot at the Roosters which is not a certainty
As an outsider looking in i would question why so many Wigan players are quite happy to jump ship at any given opportunity and try their luck in either the NRL or Rugby Union'"
Maybe players from other clubs are less wanted by the NRL and RU?
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| Quote ="Northern Boys"As an outsider looking in i would question why so many Wigan players are quite happy to jump ship at any given opportunity and try their luck in either the NRL or Rugby Union'"
That is surely a question that has to be asked at Wigan - other big clubs have lost one or two, at Wigan it seems to be everyone jumping at the first opportunity.
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| One thing I don't understand (and I'm not sure if it's been brought up)... why wasn't Burgess offered a long deal in the middle of last year when we already knew Richards was leaving? If we'd offered him £30k on a 3 year contract we could've been receiving a large transfer fee right now. The fact that he only had about 6 months left on his contract when he scored 4 tries against NZ Warriors is crazy.
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| Quote ="Wigg'n"One thing I don't understand (and I'm not sure if it's been brought up)... why wasn't Burgess offered a long deal in the middle of last year when we already knew Richards was leaving? If we'd offered him £30k on a 3 year contract we could've been receiving a large transfer fee right now. The fact that he only had about 6 months left on his contract when he scored 4 tries against NZ Warriors is crazy.'"
What?? Richards left 2013 and Joe had 2 years left on his contract when we played NZ Warriors, 2014 and 2015.
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| Quote ="Wigg'n"One thing I don't understand (and I'm not sure if it's been brought up)... why wasn't Burgess offered a long deal in the middle of last year when we already knew Richards was leaving? If we'd offered him £30k on a 3 year contract we could've been receiving a large transfer fee right now. The fact that he only had about 6 months left on his contract when he scored 4 tries against NZ Warriors is crazy.'"
Perhaps offering a take-it of leave-it £30k per year contract to one of the best young talents in the league is the reason that he has signed for somebody else.
If the salary cap is £1.9m for 25 players then why the hell would one of your first choice 13 be expected to accept a salary at less than half (assuming my quick calculation is correct) of the average wage of the 25 man squad?
I bet Williams' and Powell's new contracts are there or there-abouts what Burgess was asking for to stay at Wigan.
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| Quote ="JCWWRL"What?? Richards left 2013 and Joe had 2 years left on his contract when we played NZ Warriors, 2014 and 2015.'"
You make valid points. I still think it's 2014 for some reason.
My point still remains though. If Sutton is worth a 4 year deal now then Joe was worth the same 18 months ago.
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| Quote ="Paul Youane"Perhaps offering a take-it of leave-it £30k per year contract to one of the best young talents in the league is the reason that he has signed for somebody else.
If the salary cap is £1.9m for 25 players then why the hell would one of your first choice 13 be expected to accept a salary at less than half (assuming my quick calculation is correct) of the average wage of the 25 man squad?
I bet Williams' and Powell's new contracts are there or there-abouts what Burgess was asking for to stay at Wigan.'"
Yeah I meant offer him £30k in 2013 when he'd only like 4 or 5 games and was up against Manfredi/Gelling for Richards' wing spot.
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| No one to blame but Wigan RL Management.
They could as other clubs did see the potential in the young lad, but failed to offer a decent contract.
Penny pinching is OK if it doesn't involve losing your best youngsters way too soon.
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| Quote ="Pacific"He wont be missed too much. He was good last year but wasnt really outstanding. If a 27 year old had done what he did people wouldnt be talking him up half as much. Realistically he's had a good season for his age but so did Shaun Ainscough a few years ago for us. I imagine this deal being a disaster like Matty Russell's was. He'll go over hoping to emulate the other Burgess's and in fact he'll end up playing in front of 20 people and a dog in the Roosters B team in the NSW cup. Give it a few weeks and he'll be homesick and desperate to come back to England. He'll sign the only offer he can get from an English club with room on the salary cap (probably Wakefield).
Hopefully Wane will see sense and ship him up to Workington now and Manfredi can prove that he's a far better winger (especially in defence!!).'"
For you to quote Shaun Ainscough as being on a par with Joe Burgess at the same age is verging on the ludicrous , Burgess is by far the better player.
He is faster than Ainscough and when it came to defence and especially positioning and taking the high ball there is simply no comparison.
Like I said to myself when watching Burgess for the first time ( 2/3 years ago in the 9s ) I was watching Union material, he has something of the Chris Ashton in him.
Just my opinion.
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| Couldn't make the forum but someone said that a loss of 500k was mentioned? Not sure about this but if true it emphaises the need to stay within strict salary structures in the current league-wide funding regime.
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| Quote ="stillinthepast"For you to quote Shaun Ainscough as being on a par with Joe Burgess at the same age is verging on the ludicrous , Burgess is by far the better player.
He is faster than Ainscough and when it came to defence and especially positioning and taking the high ball there is simply no comparison.
Like I said to myself when watching Burgess for the first time ( 2/3 years ago in the 9s ) I was watching Union material, he has something of the Chris Ashton in him.
Just my opinion.'"
Ladies and gentleman this is why you should always read a full thread before commenting.
Joe Burgess' *SITUATION* is similar to Ainscoughs.
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| Quote ="stillinthepast"For you to quote Shaun Ainscough as being on a par with Joe Burgess at the same age is verging on the ludicrous , Burgess is by far the better player.
He is faster than Ainscough and when it came to defence and especially positioning and taking the high ball there is simply no comparison.
Like I said to myself when watching Burgess for the first time ( 2/3 years ago in the 9s ) I was watching Union material, he has something of the Chris Ashton in him.
Just my opinion.'"
To be fair Burgess is in a better team.
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| Quote ="Finfin"Couldn't make the forum but someone said that a loss of 500k was mentioned? Not sure about this but if true it emphaises the need to stay within strict salary structures in the current league-wide funding regime.'"
Watched it back on Wigan TV and we made a loss of 475k in 2014 due to money pumped in to the Central Park facility as well as money in fresh kit for the facility at Orrell. Falling ST sales were also mentioned as a factor but Lenagan thinks the competative nature of the new structure will sort that.
On the plus side he said they know for a fact they will be back in profit for 2015 so it certainly doesn't sound anything to worry about. The forecast for this years profit must be down to our sponsorship deals. They're worth 747k this year in comparison to around 250k in Lenagans first season with us and only 203k in 2013 when our sponsor went bust (who were they? Can't remember the name). He says our sponsorship deals this year dwarf every other superleague team.
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