Hi YG! There was a discussion on here recently re: forwards where Saint Pete in particular thought our pack was the weak link in our squad and all but dismissed Pettybourne.. I don't think you shared this view necessarily but, having seen both packs in action, what's your view now from a Saints perspective of the relative strengths?

If you think that about our spotty adolescent visitor from the Langtree Park Zoo you should visit his home forum and see what he has to say on there. For instance today he describes Mickey Mac as a coward. Now I think a good description of a coward is one who would say things about a person he would not repeat to his face. Oh and he could also be described as being yellow.

i know i seen that, but even thats hardly the trolling heights he/she has previous for.

There does seem to be a mild case of reality hitting some st helens fans today.

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#WCC Nathan Brown warns Sydney Roosters about Wigan head-hunters ow.ly/taRgk

Interesting how adamant he is that there was foul play. Someone posted a video on our board of the incident. It's hard to see whee the contact was and how much Amor contributed to the injury

https://vine.co/v/Mzdrbhg6x3v in my opinion more proof that nathan brown is gobby whiney australian. Seems to be a few of them in super league these days. Say what you want about Madge but at least he didn't complain about every little thing.

https://vine.co/v/Mzdrbhg6x3v in my opinion more proof that nathan brown is gobby whiney australian. Seems to be a few of them in super league these days. Say what you want about Madge but at least he didn't complain about every little thing.

also this in a match where LMS put in 3 high tackles and another late in that match from somebody else.

The guy seriously needs to learn how lose with some grace and dignity.

Class coaches don't. Did Wane bang on about Westwood after the GF? No. OK we won and that makes it easier to be magnanimous and ignore things but Brown is bang out of order.

no but another whiney aussie complained about us being to rough.

You think he would be used to it by now.

Saints biggest weakness is their coach. Anderson took Brown's Giants and finished top of SL. Something he never did.

Michael Maguires biggest legacy from his time here is that he bread a culture of no excuses. We don't blame injuries, referees, opposition foul play etc etc for any defeat and long may that continue.

The same can't be said about most other teams. Nathan Brown looks to blame anyone bar himself for his teams defeats but he gives his players cheap excuses.

I think Pettybourne is going to be a real handful. He looked like an absolute wrecking ball in attack and put in some big shots in defence.

What is interesting though is that many people on here poked fun at Mose Masoe and questioned his ability to play big minutes. I firmly put Pettybourne in the same category as Masoe. Massive impact in small doses. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but it's interesting that Wigan fans are selective when it comes to the merits of this type of player.

I thought Kyle Amor was very impressive last night, but he was on his own. Walmsley wasn't his usual self and LMS was also quiet. Laffranchi is too soft.
What Saints are lacking is that touch of nastiness; that aggressive streak that Wigan have. Ben Flower is the archetypal horrible prop that wants to hurt people. I like that about him. Saints didn't have that last night but I'm hoping Masoe will provide that mongrel element we need.

So overall it's certainly a small battle in favour of Wigan but 2014 has a long way to go.

pettybourne can do 40 minutes if needs be try asking Masoe to do that and you better have the oxygen ready. Pettybourne played fair amount of minutes for USA and he was basically injured all last season i wouldn't read into the interchanges in a friendly it was hardly like he was blowing when he came off.

The other thing about masoe is if a back catches him flat footed or rushed out the line you know he is going to skip around him. Just hope that he doesn't catch you on the blind side or you will more than likely be crunched.



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Also i was far from impressed with your forwards other than Sia and Amor. Amor had a strong game and just kept running hard but he also got smashed and picked up a lot i was more impressed with Crosby than Amor. I hope for your sake that Walmsley isn't going to have 2nd season syndrome he didn't look a shell of the player of last season. LMS is better off playing Prop that way he will play less minutes be more effective and give away less penalties, but thought he was close to being terrible.
Overall i think you better hope beaumont and Masoe offer something huge.

Enjoyed the match and don't think people can just write that off as a friendly, alright maybe as 1st team goes but it was more of a test to compare squads if anything. Even in the last 25-30 minutes wigan had all the kids in the backs and still held on to and then scored two tries. More than happy with the game and i think a lot of saints fans might realize wigan won't be walk overs and will stop writing us off now.

Pettybourne wouldn't be in the same category as Masoe. On Friday night he only had a brief impact because like all the props he was only on for a brief time. In the world cup Pettybourne played plenty of minutes and was a workhorse forward. In fact he was one of the most effective in the competition. He made plenty of carries, gained lots of metres and worked hard in defence and that's the sort of prop we need with Mossop leaving.

Saints do perhaps have a lack of aggression in the pack although LMS is hardly an angel. He's also flattered to deceive given the initial hype and seems more of a liability, although he does get through a lot of work in a game.
Manu offers some aggression though and I think Mose Masoe will add a bit of nastiness.

Still, I don't quite seen how Ben Flower is the 'archetypal horrible prop'. He's never been banned, rarely does anything untoward and his only brush with the disciplinary was a scrap with Perry while playing for Crusaders nearly 3 years ago. You're obviously thinking of the wrong guy. Dudson might fit that category as he's had a couple of bans previously for some sneaky things.

All things considered though Wigan don't really have a 'nasty' enforcer type forward, despite what Nathan Brown might think. In fact it's been a regular criticism of the pack. Closest we've come is Hock but he was just daft as a brush.

I think you have misunderstood my comments about Flower. It was meant as a positive thing. You can tell with the way he plays that he wants to hurt the opposition. I didn't say anything about him doing that illegally. I am not thinking of the wrong guy. I really rate Flower and like how he plays the game.

Back to Pettybourne, playing big minutes for USA against the likes of Cook Islands and Wales is one thing, but it's a big step up doing that against some of the packs in Super League. Again, I don't mean this as a negative against him, I just feel he'll be used in short bursts, similar to how we use Masoe.

I've not read any comments from a Saints fan writing you off or suggesting you'll be walkovers. Only an idiot would do that.

Sorry, I did misunderstand. He is similar to Harrison Hansen in the way that his defence is very aggressive and when players get tackled they really feel it. I'd put Sia Soliola in the same category though based on what I've seen of him.

It's definitely easier to play big minutes against the smaller nations but he also did the same against Australia. That was probably the best game he had in the competition considering the standard of opposition. Having played second row more often in his career his fitness levels should be fairly good.

He strikes me as a player who could be used in both ways, depending on the nature of the game and which player accompanies him in the front row. Alongside someone like Crosby he might be able to offer more impact and do a little less defending but playing alongside Taylor or Dudson he'd probably need to do more grunt work, which I think he's more than capable of doing.

I think Taylor and Flower will predominantly be your starting pair with Pettybourne and Dudson/Crosby from the bench. Either way you've definitely got a variety of options in the pack, as have we.

I'm certainly looking forward to Masoe and Pettybourne launching themselves at each other on Good Friday!

Cheers for that. I did think Pete's views a little off the mark (and he's generally an astute poster) and was wondering if it was a case of the Wigan fans being far more 'au fait' with the individuals in our pack or perhaps just wishful thinking on Pete's part. I don't think there's many on the Wigan board that consider the likes of Pettybourne, Taylor, Flower and Crosby as 'weak links'. I'd go as far as to say the pack looks stronger this year than last and not many teams got the better of that one! With all due respect to Luaki and Powell, they aren't really a loss and even Moose was little more than steady last year. The only real loss, on form, is Hansen but even there we have added better options in attack with the likes of Bateman and Clubb and also have several superb youngsters chomping at the bit. Given that Saints pack is reckoned to be the strong suit over at Langtree Park I was just interested to see if opinions were any different now the Saints fans had had a chance to see the to respective packs up against each other.

I see Masoe being a handful with the ball in hand, but teams will 'spot' him in the defensive line as his lack of mobility (similar to Feka when with us) is a weakness.

I haven't seen anything from him playing for Penrith or Samoa to suggest he'll be a weakness as such but I understand what you mean about teams targeting him to try and tire him quickly. They may come off worse running at him though!

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I think teams will try to make him involved with 'doubles' or even 3 tackles in a set to take petrol out of his tank, he's a big lad to have to keep up that workrate and then have to drive the ball up, I know teams tried this tactic against Feka, and to a certain extent it worked.

Banned off the Saints board for suggesting they've gone soft and are spineless which isn't helped with Nathan Brown's mard reputation.

Is that valid opinion or against the AUP? No wonder Redvee.net is so popular

really you got banned for that post? I read it and it didn't seem offensive. What was the reason given for being banned?

I think you got banned because you didn't make any attempt to engage in conversation. You basically just came on and called Saints spineless cowards, which just looks like trolling.