If we have a problem with plan A, B ,C D etc, which teams in Super League do you think would prefer NOT to be in our position at this moment in time.
Top of the league, still in the Cup and the youngest squad in Super League.

I've seen some bad strawman positions in my time but that has got to be one of the worst.

Spot on. The team structure is Wigan's greatest weapon not any one individual. That's why we've barely seen a difference when Green and Smith replaced Finch and Tommy.

But you're of course right - Sam is central to it all and is the one player who if missing leaves us in trouble. No question in my mind we'd have won the playoff against Leeds if he'd have played. God knows what happened in the cup semi - the whole team looked drunk! (just a joke, don't throw a libel accusation at me!)

I don't see what that has to do with the subject of the thread but since you ask I doubt Hull, Hudds and Wire care very much about any of that.

I wonder if Leeds have a plan B?

And this has exactly what to do with the discussion about our attack? Straw man no. 2.

It appears to be crying to the ref via their captain, arguably the worlds best whinger....

It's about the negativity of some of our "fans"
Top of the league, still in the cup and and still some want a dig at Wane.


I don't know, but I'll guess his win / loss ratio is comparable with Maguires, with arguably a weaker squad.

Hunger, Aggression, and Execution.

Why any need for a plan B?

Dave, weren't you a big fan of Brian Noble whilst he was here?
Maybe you would like for us to go back to the 'Win 2 lose 1' & 'Let's not throw the baby out of the bath water' days?

I'm not saying that Wane has got everything 100% spot on but BY CHRIST we have it 100% better now than we did in the Noble days!!!

Straw men are a good thing. They allow you to put together skeleton arguments. Given that this is a discussion as to future structures, straw men are exactly what we need. Perhaps the intended reference is to clutching at straws?
If, as seems eminently possible after Leeds' implsion, we can finish top with 3 games to spare, then that is a position that every club would like to trade with us, as it would allow us to focus on Wembley, say, without worrying about the game before or the 2 afterwards and gear up for the play offs by spelling players. The other teams may not "care" - and I like the certainty that others claim to possess that I can read other teams' minds and guess their motivations - then they ought to. The teams finishing top and second have played I and won the Grand Final far far more often than teams finishing anywhere else. Watching Hull yesterday brought home to me that there are 6 teams other than us who would be formidable opponents on their home patch this year - FC, Catalans, Giants, Leeds, Wire and even Saints. Staying first or second will avoid a nasty trip somewhere.
Back to plan A or B, I am really struggling to see what the case for the doom and gloom is. It seems to be that we have harder games against the better teams, but the style which has seen us win or draw against all of those 6 teams aside from Giants does not work (but how did we win or draw then?) needs adapting in case we happen to lose in due course.
Having had months of doom and gloom over players leaving, including horror at Fielden's going, on the basis of a single decent performance, is this all the straw clutchers have to go on now?

Lets look to other sports, Froch stuck to plan A against Kessler, Kessker tried plan A & B and lost because Froch had the intensity to see out plan A. Nadal & Djokovik win with plan A because when it faulters they increase their intensity to see plan A through. Melbourne storm use the same moves, i.e a structured move, but rotate the players to create a bluff and double bluff scenario. But they still stick to plan A. Last years semi against Leeds would have been won with plan A if that idiot Finch had of kicked for touch instead of the spectacular cross field kick that wasn't on. I have a good recall of that match and we started to throw inside passes in the second half that made inroads into Leeds defence and kept them on the back foot. But mr "experienced" Finch saw an end to that plan. Intensity and sticking to the game plan wins matches, ask Nadal Djokovik, Froch etc

His stupid little kick through at the end was the killer. We kept trying to force the ball when in a winning position though.

I can't wait for the unveiling next Thursday.

In knockout games against top 5 sides:
Maguire - Won 5 Lost 3 - 63%
Wane - Won 1 Lost 2 - 33%

I've included Maguire's WCC loss to St George in that as well.

But Maguire did have better quality players to choose from.

It's about time Wigan RL got the players they deserve.

I am sick of IL doing stuff on the cheap, playing "Mr Big man in a small (and getting smaller) pond".

He had harder opposition too though IMO. Anyway, I've no idea where you think we will sign these players we deserve from. When an opportunity did present itself (Melbourne's cap issues) he bought three top players in Lima, Hoffman and Finch to replace Coley, Bailey and Phelps. The salary cap, combined with the relative wealth of the NRL clubs, prevents us from signing top NRL players, same with RU. There are hardly any good players at teams outside the top 5 in SL, and the good players at top 5 clubs in SL are only likely to move in order to go to the NRL, not to another top side. What do you expect him to do? I've yet to see Leeds, Wire, Saints or Huddersfield land any big names in the last 4 years either

Absolutely not. I was in fact one of the first to voice the opinion that he was taking us nowhere fast.

Got the usual "negative" comments about that but was proved right in the end.

They didn't look that good under Noble. He got them playing far better and so his tenure was as clear an indication as you could want for the influence a coach can have on a group of players.

A coach and a very good one is the difference between winning team and a mediocre team. Just look at Man United without Alex Ferguson clueless against Liverpool and Chelsea. All we can hope that Wane and the team have an on and of switch as the performance and i do agree against a poor Hull side was the best we had in weeks.

Onw way or another in the next week or 2 we will know that Wane is a Genius or a village idiot in charge.

That's not the issue. The comparison was between Wane and Madge.

Well we will know if he has a brain, that's for sure.

I would love to see how your CV as a professional RL player and coach measures up against his, seems you would have been a much better choice as coach.. IL missed a trick there!!

IL OUT!!!

But neither have they lost players in anything like the same quantity that we have and are continuing to do. And they have also picked up the odd nugget in Ratchford, Moon, Hill, Ferres all of whom would have done well for us.

But using that logic means you would be happy with anyone who has a better CV than you. Now, I don't know if you have been a pro player or coach but, even if you have I would assume James Lowes has a better CV. Would you be happy with him as coach, for example?