Did you really get the impression it was finalesque performance? I saw it more as a perfunctory attacking game with good defence and decent kick-chase. Nothing more really. Saints one dimensional attacking game playing into the hands of our strong defence.

Wire play London a week on Friday, they won't rest anyone for our game.

People who bring up our playoff record and bottling tag forget one thing, in any year we've made the playoffs we've been a mid table side, in theory, really, only once have we lost when we've been expected to win and that was last year.

Bottling is getting to a Grand Final and losing 5 times or a CC Final and constantly being on the losing side.

How a struggling mid table team that has just managed to scrape into playoffs and been beaten usually the first game is a bottling team i don't know?

Since Smith took over we've won the majority of the 'big games', Leeds caught us out last year but it was no fluke as they went on to win the whole thing and tidied up the WCC too.

I'd agree with that, though the Huddersfield defeat in 2010 is probably the one which gives our detractors ammunition to throw our way - The Leeds one last year was more just two evenly matched sides giving it their all, in a contest that could have gone either way.

I think our recent Cup record is ample proof that we are not bottlers, indeed, if a bottlers tag can be thrown about so easily, then you could question Wigan's recent Challenge Cup defeats (barring last year), coupled with how they fell apart in last year's play-offs, similar to us in 2010.

In all seriousness, neither Wire or Wigan are 'bottlers', they have just paid the price for being the only sides to show respect to all THREE competitions and to run out of steam at vital times.

sam=hodgson (both offer different things to their teams)
charnley=riley (both finish, both fast and athletic)
goulding=ratchford (goulding the better , ratchford more useful in general play)
carmont=atkins (carmont the better , atkins more athletic)
thornley<monaghan (monaghan proven great finisher)
finch<briers (both offer the backbone of creativity to the team, briers edging with kicking)
smith-myler? (havent seen enough of smith to truly compare)
lauaki<morley (on form)
mcilorum>monaghan (monaghan not looking fit or anything like he has been the last two years)
mossop=hill (both impressive)
hansen=waterhouse (both good second rowers)
hock=westwood (both beasts)
oloughlin>grix (great all round)

only obvious differences in class i could find man for man in likely teams. and i call it 3-2 to warrington.

Put Tommy and Pat in there and it is a different outcome. Also would have Finch and Hock all day long before Briers and Westwood, but it is all about opinions, good fair post though the wrestler!

Current seasons form, can't argue with that, even the Mike Monaghan one, if it was last year he'd be head and shoulders above McIllorum but he's not that player yet.
The Carmont Atkins one again, 2 different styles of play both suited to the style of their team, one's weakness is anothers strength and vice versa, very fair assessment, the only one's in that i'd question are Tomkins/Hodgson and Hansen/Waterhouse
Forgetting reputations and history i'd go Waterhouse over Hansen and Tomkins over Hodgson.

those two were interesting ones, the sort where all wigan fans would say finch and hock, and all wire fans would say briers and westwood. finch has been brilliant, but i know how much i and others worry about briers, basically we know hes good.


ive seen little of waterhouse but the impression i get is that they are very similar players. unspectacular 2nd rows, different from hock/westwood but both very hard, both run great lines, great in defence. hodgson and tomkins, tomkins has his moments of brilliance, but then i know that id be biased to say tomkins straight off the bat. theyve both had great roles in attack for their teams this year, and both been shown up defensively on occasions. on rethink, i would go tomkins for his recent individual work and seeing that he is top try assister this year, which makes it all the more interesting at 3-3

Waterhouse offers more in attack, his massive frame sucks in three defenders and then he kills teams with his offloads, look how much Atkins is benefitting from having the space that Waterhouse creates.

ive conceded sam was wrong, i thing i wanted to look as impartial as possible. the others im happy with. hill has been wires best prop by far from what ive seen and mossop although reliable to make the hard yards is yet to take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sign of great props like morley/peacock/fielden in their hayday. goulding and ratchford are completely different players, but as ratchford is filling in at they stand to be compared. ratchford is a half with good hands who can fill in at but is likely to offer more in the middle of the field in attack than goulding, whereas with goulding, if he gets the ball within ten meters of the try line you can pretty much guarantee charnley will score. and charnley had displayed little game changing potential since the challenge cup semi final last year. hes a good winger, but so is riley unfortunately.

I don't buy into this "this game is meaningless in the context of things" attitude displayed predominantly by Warrington fans on this thread.

It's a local clash between 1st and 2nd. Warrington themselves are still in with a sniff of 1st place and they made a lot of it last season when it was they who finished 1st.

To dismiss this game as meaningless is laughable in my opinion. I understand the sentiment that the play-offs which ultimately lead to the Grand Final and the Challenge Cup Final at Wembley are higher accolades and are a measure of greater achievement but this surely means something?

It does to me and I'm sure it does to plenty other Wigan fans (and Wire fans probably). I want to win this game. I want to finish 1st and claim the shield. I want to win every game. I'll be jubilant if we win and gutted if we lose and I'm sure Shaun Wane will be the same. Bragging rights add further spice to the clash IMO.

The reason we made alot of it last season is because it was something we hadn't done for a VERY long time, the playoffs ultimately showed us that it means nothing, something you were all telling us last year when we finished top. We have a final to play in two weeks time and are pretty much claimed 2nd place in the league, there is zero extra benefit for us to finish top in the context of the season. The fixture list has also been weighed heavily against us, 5 days rest in comparison to the 8 Wigan would have had is a massive difference in rugby league. I'm sure once the game starts both sets of fans and players will be wanting to winning massively, but in the greater scheme of things it means very little.

So what you're actually saying is.... you've got your excuses ready made

Same with us as last season. I was saying last season when we won the CC that if we won the GF then we would have to be considered the best SL for a long time with the fixtures that we had aftter and just before the CC. However a match against Widnes isn't the same as playing ourselves after a CC.

I want us to win, i want that because this is my favourite match of the season and there is no better feeling than beating you.

Grand scheme of things though, if we win, we'll be second and probably finish seconds, if you lose you'll be first and probably finish first, if you win nothing changes if we lose nothing changes.

All this match is, is bragging rights, if TS sees it the same then i can see him resting players, even though i hope he doesn't.

It depends on how much he wants the CC IMO. If he wants it then I think it'll make more sense resting players this weekend and playing as near full team against London to get combinations together and so forth, instead of chopping and changing 3 teams for three different weeks. If he's not fussed whether Wolves win the CC then it'll be a strong side against WIgan and a weakend/rested team against London.

If our pack play's to it capabilities, and avoids any stupid brain farts, then that will be a solid platform to control the game.

I know that Wire has more than a single trick as regards tactical kicking, but Briers is far above the rest, and we just need to close him down early on the kick.

Get those two things right, and Josh's goalkicking won't have too much influence.

10+ point win to Wigan.

You talk far too much sense for a Wire fan

im yet to see a team stop wire doing there annoying charge down.

First set of odds I've seen give us a 2 point start at 1/1, Wire at 5/6. Pretty close that.

On the rare occasions recently - Saints, Hudds and Leeds away - when we've been the bookies' underdogs we've produced the goods.

Pretty good post that.
Don't agree with them all but it's personal preference.
Hodgson is such a steadying influence for us and very important in the way we play.
Sam gives you the x factor and is equally important for the way you play.

Also Monaghan / Thornley is equal for me (Monas - a proven finisher, but one of the slowest wingers we've had for some time)
What I'd like to see is the same analysis done for the guys on the bench as this is very important these days.

I think ours will be -
Higham (he will start instead of Monas but for the purposes of this let's put him here)
Wood
McCarthy (may even get in the 13 ahead of Grix)
Cooper (although I hope Carvell will be back)

Do your stuff Wrestler!

Watching the Saints and Warrington game on Monday your biggest battle will be in the forwards. Having said that your Front Row and Back Row are better quality then are's too be quite frank.

Evens, home advantage, but shorter turnround, just think the kicking conversions and field kicks, Wire have slight edge, we have to get at Briers , they have to get at Sam, one thing it is only 2 points and will mean nothing when playoff time comes, just wish we had a fit Tommy and Pat but we haven't, should be a great game though.

This game won't actually decide anything. We lost a lot when Tommy got injured, playing Lockers out of position, meaning the whole dynamic changed. Matty Smith has done really well coming in at this time in the season, and for me he is the key to the Wire game. He is still learning our systems, unfortunately missing Finch last week, but with those two working well, we will get better to the end of the season.
Win or lose this week, and I believe it will be close as Wire's defence has been rock solid, we are well placed for the run in to the end of the season.