This whole process is amazingly frustrating. As if it wasn't bad enough seeing RU defectors return with every inch of talent and flare ground out of them, we've now got NRL defectors coming home when they're ready to collect their pensions - and everyone getting excited about it.

I just can't share the view that "it's great for the British game" if our best players go off and spend their prime in another competition. Okay, at least if they're in the NRL they are still available for England selection, though as others have said, for all that they were lauded in Australia, I've never seen either Ellis or Morley add greatly to our Test match efforts. Certainly no more so than many of our home-based forwards.

I know they'll never come back, but I so yearn for the days when our domestic competition boasted some of the most exciting talents in the world, when our top men only went to RU when they'd turned 30, and when they'd spend no more than half a season in Aus 'guesting'.

Are we seriously content to be the talent seedbed not just for Rugby Union but for Australian Rugby League as well?

Are you suggesting Adrian Morley returned from the NRL ready to collect his pension?

All the stuff about three years being too long a deal was also said about Warrington signing Morley - wind back time and I'd bet there would be a few more clubs willing to give Morley that length of contract with the benefit of hindsight.

But we still missed his best years.

Anyway, it isn't just about Morley. It's an overall trend. Most RU defectors have come back crap. When Denis Betts returned from the NRL, he was a shadow of the player he'd once been. It will be interesting to see if Ellis tears it up, but even if he does, it will only be for a year or two. Imagine how he'd have contributed to the British domestic league if he'd been over here instead of winning Player of the Year repeatedly in Australia.

I agree. When Morley joined Warrington I thought you had bought an over the hill prop who was here for retirement money. I thought that Fielden would turn out to be 3x the signing that Morley was and I have been proven wrong.

Imo there is no doubt that Morely improved massively when in Australia, and Warrington got the benefit of this.

I disagree therefore with Cruncher's suggestion.

So because Morley was better than everyone expected him to be for a couple of years, that means it doesn't matter that the new trend is for our star players to spend their best years in Australia (if they're not already going to Rugby Union)?

I'm sure you wouldn't agree with that.

what we have to look at is the root cause of the problem, "why do our top players" want to go to go to the NRL or Yawnion and put in place the mechanisms needed to keep them in the game in Super League.

The point you are missing is this.

Would Morley have been the player he is now for Warrington without playing a stint in the NRL?

I don't think he would have been.

££££

It's called the Communist Cap.

I agree with this and I believe that Ellis will prove to be a better player for his NRL experience into his thirties in Super League.

I personally think that the lifestyle/coaching and conditioning that gareth will have had over in OZ will mean he can come back over here and easily carry on for another three years. I'm pretty sure when morley came back that Tony Smith will have sat him down and asked if there was anything he had been doing in OZ that could be used to better a warrington side that still weren't doing much at the time. Were still behind when it comes to sports nutrition/psychology/conditioning/basic skills and prep compared to the aussies so im sure that players who go over there and are now coming back will have new info for any club looking to sign them as each club is always looking for that extra 1% advantage over other teams.

It was Cullen that signed Morley.

Well the short answer to this is, of course, "we'll never know". But given that He, Ellis and Burgess all ripped it up from their first seasons in the NRL, I think it's fair to say the evidence suggests that he would. In addition, Madge coached in superleage. He's now coaching at Souths. Does that mean the coaching he gave at Wigan was somehow, by default, worse than he will be giving at Souths, just because it was carried out in the Superleage? Obviously not. I understand and agree with the argument that the tougher standards in the NRL will always give players an extra few percent when it comes to the tight games, but I'm not sure how that would be so much benefit to an English club that it's worth losing 3-5 years of a player in his prime.

It was Cullen that signed Morley.

Apologies it was, same principle though

I think this is a much overused argument. Does anyone truly believe, in this day and age, that coaches this side of the pond aren't able to find out the most recent techniques in any given disciplne? Seriously? That's before we get on to the fact that many coaches, incluuding as I say above, our very own Madge operate in the Superleague on a regular basis anyway. There's 2 new coaches from Aus started this year on Humberide, one, I believe, with backroom SOO experience! Apart from which; let's assume the players can impart some snippets of wisdom, on their return from Aus. We already have a steady stream of Australian and NZ players coming over. Are you saying that, for example, Morley can give better information regarding training techniques etc, several years after returning from Aus, than could the dozen or more Aussies that were plying their trade in the NRL as recently as last season? Again, the obviousl answer is "no"

I'm not sure why people keep using this argument. It simply doesn't hold water.

The only player who could be considered to have "ripped it up" during their first season in the NRL would be Ellis. Morley by his own admission struggled during his first season.

Perhaps Ellis fitted in better as he was older when he went to the NRL.

Without reading all of this, I would have him in a heart beat, and be more than comfortable with a 3 year deal. Ellis is a truly worldclass player in every sense of the word, he is also a model professional.

He would bring that Phil Bailey type impact behind the scenes and a real positive impact on the field. I appreciate we have a wealth of secondrow's but it is not often worldclass players become available with so much still to offer.

Having said that do I think he will come to us....no, we will be priced out of the market if we were interested by clubs in a more dire need for secondrow players. Every club though in SL must be interested, they would be mad not to be. Absolute quality in everything he does.

Why would it be denying a home grown player a place in the squad given we don't have a squad made up of entirely home grown players?

If he is better than the likes of Flower or Lauaki why would we not improve our squad by signing him if we could?

In fact if a player becomes available that improves our squad and we can sign him then we should sign him regardless of who he replaces in the squad, whether the player that losses out is home grown or not. That is the ruthless and professional mentality that got Wigan to the top in the 80's and 90's.

Would Ellis improve the squad? Don't know but that has got to be the only consideration.

Oh, and the idea we would sign any player to deny other clubs his services given there is a salary cap is a joke.

The only factor that we struggle with is the intensity of the games. Too many easy games that allow players to drop off in their performances does the national team no favours. I am not convinced about the Exiles concept, can it continue to grow or will it fall by the wayside. The top players need to be tested more than an handful of games a season.

I think you'll find that Burgess has been an outstanding success too.

"It has been said in the media that "Sam Burgess is the best Pommie to come out here in 20 years" meaning he is the best English exported player to play in the NRL for 20 years." is one quote and, from Souths own website: "Sam made quite an impact on the NRL in his maiden season in 2010". To be honest that's common concensus anyway so I'm not ure where you get the above statement from.

As for Morley, if memory serves, the only thing he struggled with initially was the transition from England to Australia, (i.e. being away from friends and family etc.) not on the playing field, which is no different to Pat Richards for example. Are you arguing that Pat's training in the NRL didn't prepare him for life in the Superleague and he's 'become a better player' because he now plays regularly in England rather than in Aus?

Anyway, didn't Morley play in two consecutive Grand finals over there in only his 2nd and 3rd seasons? He must have at least performed well enough to maintain his place in the team! Either way, even if we discount Morley, that makes 2 out of the 3 players who were an immediate success. One even made player of the year for his club in his first season!

The point to be made here is that the loss of [uany[/u world class, or potential world class, player to the NRL is a loss to Superleage. The relative benefits of getting that player back at the tail end of his career is dwarfed by the loss to the competition by his being in another competition during his prime years. I can simplify this analogy. Would the people who are advocating this as a good thing accept it so readily if the players were going to Union for the best part of their careers and returning as [umarginally[/u better players for a couple years prior to retirement? That's if you even accept the premise that the players return as 'better' players. For my money, as good as he still is, Morley was a 'better' player during his stint in Australia. He would still have been better during that time than he is now had he stayed in England and the rest of Superleague would have benefitted by playing against him in his prime.

Gary Hetherington already been to Australia in January and said that he was looking for a 'marquee' signing for the 2013 season..