I don't disagree with that.

But I think we now have to act to stem the tide of defections.

It isn't a huge tide, but we haven't got so vast a reservoir of talent that we can just ignore it.

If you would care to take your head out of the sand and look around, you would see that the game already is in demise.

Time was when the stock argument to such views on this board were "Well you would say that as Wigan are not winning anything". Most on here said that was bolleaux at the time.

You can no longer use that one. Wigan won SL last year and are favourites to win everything this year, yet we are still making the same point.

Will the sport collapse overnight? Of course not. Could it be here in 20 years? Absolutely. Will it be retain or improve it's position in the UK sporting pecking order without a major overhaul? Not a chance.

It's not just the RU international fixtures that are ahead of RL. They quite often fill Wembley or Twickenham for a LEAGUE game. That's what 80,000 people?

We couldn't fill Cardiff with similar numbers with ALL the SL teams over 2 days.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee for a lot within the RL "community".

Exactly. The TV coverage alone makes RL look second rate. Empty seats down at Cardiff when EVERY RL team play there over two days. Just looks bad.
I'd actually like to know the average SL attendance. The 'mean' average is probably completely dispreportational due to a few big clubs.

RL is obsessed with expanding the range of the sport-this isn't a bad thing, but letting well founded clubs suffer in the process is. Practically driven away fans from major RL clubs such as Widnes and Halifax.

The direction SL clubs are allowing our sport to be taken will kill the sport.
Currently if you support a non SL club you have nothing to aim for, and dont give me any BS about maybe getting a franchise sometime. The game below SL is being killed and 11 clubs will not sustain a national game, as non SL fans become more and more disenfranchised and abandon the sport.
If I were the RFU I would target a club like Leigh with fantastic facilities to showcase the game, and throw resource at it with a 5/10 year plan to recruit all the best junior RL kids and convert them to RU. The cash and structures taking kids to SL Academies from non SL heartland areas would be insignificant when compared to what would be on offer from RU.
RL must unite or accept our fate of semi pro.

I'm the one with my head in the sand? LoL. Oh you know what, forget it, I agree with you all - RL can't possibly increase it's revenues (and as a result afford to pay out higher wages by default), nobody comes to watch the games anyway, and that's all the RFL's fault. let's continue to rely on a few wealthy benefactors propping up the finances of the currently big clubs, and if any of those benfactors go away for whatever reason, and that club implodes, oh well, it sucks to be them.

I agree with the franchise issue. Franchises were supposed to allow clubs to put in stable financial plans for the future, without the threat of relegation this was supposed to stop clubs from overspending in an effort to stay in SL, due to their being less pressure. That has obviously not been the case, and from where I was sitting, it was really the only sensible/valid "pro" in the pro's and con's list of franchises.

I'd be perfectly happy to see proper P&R come back in to RL.

[urlhttp://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12553_6786935,00.html[/url

15 seconds into this interview, looks like the Union boys have their eyes on the Tomkins brothers.

The RU 'tapping up' turns its attentions to Sam and Joel. Seems like we're now a 'feeder' for the England RU backs!

Rugby League has always been a northern england sport... im not sure if its more popular than Union up here but we need to promote the game darn sarf. Just look at the media attention Chris Ashton is getting, one or two trys for England and everyones up his ... its an attractive offer made by Union. Big cash on the table and the chance to make a name for themselves. In Rugby League, Sam Tomkins is probably the biggest star going at the moment but hardly makes the headlines. I seen Unions premiership rugby... its not impressive, my guess is its the international stage that plays its part. And this is the problem that the RFL alone can not do, we need other countrys to promote the game. France, Italy, Ireland, Wales, Scotland etc all have a huge interest in RU.... at the moment if England RL won the world cup no one would give a rats . You would expect a mension on Sky Sports News and thats about it



Would increasing the salary cap attract players and keep hold of the talent? No. We have to get the media attention, promote the game around the southern part of the country and get bums in seats. England RU have their own 80,000 seater ground... we usually have to play England games at a 25,000 seater and struggle to sell outicon_biggrin.gifEPRESSED:

Either way something needs to be done, im no saints fan... but watching the likes of Eastmond and other players switch code is quite depressing. Is that a young players ambition these days? Come through the ranks and hope that a union club comes knocking on the door for them? The interest in international rugby league is the main issue, until other countrys give a cr*p our game will always be in the shadow of union.

And thats the very reason why both Sam and Joel were gien 5 year deals. Where Saints were slow was in getting him on a long contract 18 months ago. From what i can see i am more bothered about the NRL getting players from SL than Union. Think Graham will be going to the NRL next season.

5 year deals mean zip in sport.

Let's assume next year Sam said he wanted to go to RU.

Are Wigan really going to say "nope, sorry, you can stay here for 4 more years"

I don't think so.

NRL is a great league to watch and I highly recommend Rugby League fans watch it, and also firmly believe it will strength the English team massively if their was a higher representation of English players in the NRL.

Cesc Fabregas would disagree.

Apologies Paul I was juggling about 10 windows on my pc while typing that so either i didnt explain it properly or you got all hot and bothered with the wigan lot ...
But pointing out what an organisation can do when it gets off its backside and does something positive was exactly what I was doing

maybe because i called the idea a beauty( a positive phrase i know) you thought I was being sarcastic

the NRL is doing a great job especially given the fact it has a lot of players that generally are doing their best to give the sport a bad name by getting ed up at every opportunity

A bit of co-operation from the RFL might help. I contacted them the day the WCC poster came out, asking if any were available. It took them over a month to reply, and they eventually sent me ONE (which went in my car window). I'd have happily stuck hundreds up in local pubs, libraries, fitness centres, anywhere, if I could have got hold of them.

Credit their marketing department for producing such a brilliantly designed poster, but a massive FAIL for getting it visible anywhere.

Football doesn't have a CC

you think we have declined from this...?
the last winter season in 1995/1996

Wigan..................1st........Central Park.........11,947
Leeds..................2nd........Headingley..........11,595
Halifax.................3rd.........Thrum Hall..........4,657
St Helens .............4th........ Knowsley Road.....7,144
Sheffield Eagles.....5th........ Don Valley...........3,106
Castleford............6th........ Wheldon Road......4,073
Bradford Northern..7th.........Kirklees, Odsal.....4,594
Oldham................8th........Watersheddings....3,188
Warrington...........9th........ Wilderspool..........4,922
London Broncos....10th........ The Valley.........2,387
Workington Town..11th........Derwent Park......3,062



people like you would rank Rugby League just ahead of gymnastics but a little bit behind the Luge..

imagine back in 1996 someone saying:
"I tell thee lad in 2009 Warrington will call umselves wolves and will be playing a team from France....... in't tholympic stadium in Barcelona.....reet in front o almost twenty thousand fans. and it'll just be a league game.. nailed on a tell thee......"

you'd call for the men in white coats

as Graham Taylor once said "well you worry, but dont make the 'kin rest of us worry"..

Not sure where you got those stats from (I can't believe Saints crowds were ever THAT low), but even assuming they're right I'd still make the following points:-

1. Some clubs have increased crowds since the 90s, due to better facilities - including Wigan. Unfortunately these better facilities are much more expensive to build and operate, which can be seen in the fact that despite bigger crowds at some stadia RL clubs are able to spend 30% less in real terms on player salaries than they were in the late 90s. RL will not be able to support a full time pro competition in the long term unless this is addressed.

2. The demise of a number of clubs on that list - I remember when Halifax for example were one of the better supported clubs with 9 thousand average attendances - shows how unstable SL clubs are and how poorly managed RL is.

3. The opening night of SL saw almost 20k fans in Paris watch PSG play Sheffield Eagles. I'd say the game has gone backwards since then!

4. In the early 90s GB were competitive with Australia. By the mid 90s the decline had started and nowadays international RL is just a joke

1973 1st Test GB v Australia at Wembley att: 9,874

There was more for the test against the Aussies last year at Wigan than there was for the corresponding fixture in the halycon days of 1986.

Don't let facts get in the way of your reasoning though.

Todays RL Fans made up fact.

Did you see how Headingley looked the other night on tv?

They filled the bottom tier.... 38k



I reckon we could get a crowd like that at Anfield for wigan saints if enough effort was put in. I think Leeds v Bardford could fill up ER.

Seems you can't handle facts - they are average crowds from that season. Do you accept the game is better attended now?

1. You seem to suggest clubs should ignore the facilities for the fans at the expense of paying players more money. Lunacy.

2. Halifax's problems started when they spent beyond their means on playing staff and sent themselves bankrupt to the point of selling their ground. A salary cap would have prevented this.

3. Those 20 thousand moved to Barcelona the other year. Your right the game has moved south a fair few miles.

4. I'm interested to hear about all these close series because I don't recall them. The closest series I remember was the fairly recent one when the Aussies won all three tests by a score in the closing minutes.


I really believe that you have managed to brainwash yourself to the extent you actually believe what you say is true despite all the hard facts suggesting different. Classic signs of paranoia.

Weren't we seconds away from winning the series at Old Trafford before Stuart set up Meninga?

I'm sure we were drawing the game with minutes to go, with the series level at 1-1.