take the lockers incident out of the picture what he says about redhall is true . what ever you do yu know its a warning letter and a £300 pound fine is ridiculous, some incidents need to be punished harder than this and its just not happening.

i dont know why you are insisting that O'loughlin is 'one of the fairest' and as such beyond reproach when outside wigan he has quite the reputation for a head hunter, it seems your wigan bias has heavily clouded your judgement here,

saying that, its not really fair to pick a player and tackle at random and decide to make an example of them.
There is no reason, however, that the RFL couldnt use this to draw a line in the sand and say we will be on the look out for it in the next games with heavy punishments for those who transgress

so what? im no giants fan, and dont need to protect Brown, but if you think tackles like O'loughlins arent practised and the idea of putting a hit on the playmaker even if you are a late isnt a tactic openly discussed at clubs you are very very naive.

Why is Brown asking Mason et al to use other similar tactics any different?

No mate I'm not naive. I've also been watching this game for well over 20 years so trust me when I say I know the difference between putting pressure on a kicker (or passer in this case) and attempting to take someone's head off. What Brown is advocating is retribution for something [uhe[/u doesn't like, eventhough it's no different than anything else that warrants a penalty in a game. O'Loughlin was doing something that has been part of the game for as long as it's been played. If you (or he) don't like the fact that it doesn't always go perfectly then I suggest you're watching, and he's coaching, the wrong game! Are you seriously suggesting that coaches should send their players out with the instruction that whenever a decision doesn't go their way they should take retribution?

One further point. If you seriously think a late tackle is the same as sending players out with the instruction to take the law (of the game) into their own hands as you suggest in your last sentence then it's you who is naive....

i think that props putting themselves about a bit has been part of the game since it began. I think an enforcer protecting his backs may well be written into a props job description.

I think asking a prop to risk giving a penalty away via sly punch, a high tackle, a swinging arm, a bit of a facial, , maybe if at all possible provoke a fight so they can try a bit of intimidation, get a bit of retribution and maybe make O'loughlin (or any number of other players) think again before they try it, is absolutley no different to asking O'loughlin to put a hit on the playmaker whether he is late or not to try and put a bit of doubt in the playmakers mind. Its two sides of exactly the same coin

Here's Tony Smiths take on it from the Warrington Guardian. Seems like he thinks Brown was out of order making the comments and then goes on to mention our "enforcers". Makes for an interesting game come Saturday....



[urlhttp://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/wolves/wolvesnews/8150162.Smith__Headache_to_select_the_Warrington_team/[/url

Other than one is an error of timing and the other is an error of intent. If you can't tell the difference then the debate is meaningless.

Just to clarify. If I run someone over as a consequence of an error in my driving is that the same as me purposefully, willfully and deliberately setting out with the intention of running them over in your opinion?

if you run someone over through a reckless disregard for safety then yes.

If you want to pretend O'loughlin is angel who wouldnt dare throw himself into a tackle knowing full well he will likely be late then fine. I dont mind. But every team, in every league trys it, maybe Wigan are different, maybe they are making a subtle stand for the Corinthian spirit of sport and everything illegal or bit naughty they do is completely accidental, who knows

But all other 13 teams in SL do it, they will all take the risk of hitting the playmaker late to try and intimidate him and put him off his game, they will all rather hit him late than not hit him, we see it numerous times a game, asking your props to put themselves about a little in retribution is hardly something to get your knickers in a twist about, this isnt ballet

And Smith is spot on in what he says. In particular; "I can understand where he is coming from but your own backyard has to be clean to say something like that and I’m not sure that is necessarily the case." hits the nail on the head. Brown is a hypocrite, pure and simple. Dressing it up as anything else is laughable.

someone should tell the little Aussie runt we dont care about his opinion.

Mate, you really can't distinguish between something that happens as a result of persuing the game and something instigated outside the rules, can you? No one is suggesting the game isn't hard or that foul play doesn't occur. As I said earlier, if you are unable to tell the difference your contibution to this debate is rendered meaningless.

Let's just try one more time. If someone is accidently shot as a consequence of a hunting accident is this the same as someone going out with a gun to shoot someone deliberately? Now, I can't for a minute believe you genuinely don't know the difference, in which case, why are you struggling with the concept of someone being challenged late as a consequence of something that goes on in the game as opposed to players deliberately going out to hit/hurt/injure players? Surely it's not that difficult a concept to grasp?

I'm not even saying that O'Loughlin's tackle shouldn't have been penalised. It was, by the rules of the game, worthy of a penalty which is exactly what it got. I also don't see the problem with forwards going out to intimidate other players as long as it's done legally. In fact, it's a major part of the game. This is not what you're defending here. You're defending the right of coaches to send out players with the sole intent of attacking opposition players just because said coach doesn't want to be subject to the same laws as everyone else!! You rightly say this isn't ballet. But it isn't a mugging either!

Looking after the little guys is something we were always taught, but that was done behind closed doors. Brown has now made at least two PUBLIC statements to this effect, boasting that his tough guys will take care of business if the ref doesn't.

It's the public aspect of this that's the problem. It's the sort thing Danny Dyer comes out with in lads' mags. A bit pathetic really.

Tony Smith is hardly going to back Nathan Brown is he when he was named along with Cummins quoted as saying we can't ban all players because there would'nt be enough quality one's left!!

Serious questions for you as you seem intent on giving your opinion on this. Do you honestly think that a fractionally late tackle (not high or swinging arm or anything like that, just fractionally late) is worthy of a 2 month ban? Also, do you honestly believe that the appropriate response to a coach not getting what he wants is to tell his players to go out and take matters into their own hands? Seriously....

Brown is a idiot

Cant wait to see his tough guys teaching SL a lesson.

no what you are doing is trying to pretend that O'loughlins actions were purely accidental and a result of a mis-timed challenge and not a result of training and tactics that see it worth risking a penalty to throw yourself at a playmaker whether you are late or not. I just dont see a huge difference to a deliberate action hurting someone and a deliberately reckless action doing it.

Im not saying O'loughlin hit him late on purpose, im saying he didnt care if he hit him late. I dont see either as something to defend. If we allow leeway for actions like O'loughlins we allow leeway for any reasonable retribtution, anything else is simply hypocritical.

Its like you are defending O'loughlin because what he did was sly and that it is somehow worse to be up front about it

The public aspect smacks of pressuring the RFL to do something about it. and you're right, it doesnt show the game in a great light but neither do these late challenges we see all the time

But sending players to mete out justice does? Now which is it?

I'd hardly say Mick Potter was " Shown up" by him to be honest. You only beat us by 8 points. Unless you are classing a defeat as being shown up, in which case Maguire has been " Shown up" by the much Maligned duo of Brian Mcdermott and Steve Mcnamara!

either we allow both to go (virtually) unpunished or we stamp them both out! We do one or the other,what we dont do is allow what O'loughlin to do go free then complain when there is a little retribution and intimidation.

I would say no and no. However I am not Nathan Brown, and didnt see the challenge on Luke Robinson. None of know what goes on behind closed doors in team talks or training sessions!.

I was making a point about what Tony Smith and his comments about banning players.

It was his after match comments that got him added to the list, nothing to do with the win

Entirely wrong.

You're making the assumption that O'Loughlin was 'deliberately reckless'. Please prove that point. (and please don't come back with some "it happens all the time" or "It's my opinion" junk!)

In the second instance we [uknow[/u it to be deliberate as Brown himself has confirmed it.

You getting this yet?

You then go on to admit that you don't in fact think or at least can't say that O'Loughlin did this on purpose (and in fact he has no real history of this tactic anyway even if that's what you wanted to try to intimate!).

In the second instance we [uknow[/u it to be deliberate as Brown himself has confirmed it.


We there yet?

Then you say "Its like you are defending O'loughlin because what he did was sly and that it is somehow worse to be up front about it". Well let's start with the fact that no-one is defending O'Loughlin "because it was sly". In fact I doubt there'd be any takers for that particular defence. Rather, we are saying it was an "honest error in timing due to a commited attempt to put pressure on the opposition player and prevent him getting the kick/pass away effectively". You remember that don't you? It's called playing the game. If you're response to that is that sending players out to exact revenge is the same thing then, mate, you aren't naive, your a fool.

O'Loughlin didn't go unpunished. A penalty was awarded against him which was entirely the correct decision. Have a look at the rules if you have any further points that need clearing up!

I agree the other incident went unpunished.

OK. Fair enough!