Too true, no one spoke after conceding at try. The bloke next to me shouted 'speak up captains'...

Quite disappointing as i thought there would be more communication

The "bollocking" captain is a strange one. I'd bet that the ones who want one would be the first to complain at work if they were rollocked in public.

Before I retired I had all sorts of managers, the shouters, the pragmatic, the theorists, the deep thinkers, the innovators, the people men etc

All had their virtues, but the shouters in general got less out of their team than the rest.

Wasn't it Phil Clarke who said that the shouter (captain) was popular with the fans but meant nothing to the players?

Agree with that man, I didnt see much different from last season, however its our first hit out so lets all relax! lol

I wasn't so much calling for a bollocking as communication. If the team doesn't talk about why they conceeded a try they are unlikely to stop the same thing happening again unless the coach gets a message down. This was clear yesterday as we conceeded plenty of tries through us giving away silly penalties and them shipping the ball out to the wing quicker than our defence would slide. They should be talking about cutting out the daft penalties and either sliding quicker or spreading out more rather than silently watching the opposition knock the conversion over.

Agreed, i wasnt looking for one player to be shouting at the others, but some communication regarding why/how a player got through could have been discussed, in order for the team to understand what to do different next time. The players being silent, doesnt fill the fans with much confidence.

I think Riddell was the only one to say a few words...

as wakefield scored one of their 8 tries , i noticed lockers just pull his face in disapointment and had a little go at sam regarding the gap the wakefield guy ran through. sam just held his arms out. As if to say what could i do about it . Dont think anything more was said as they were behind the sticks.

Certainly in the first quarter there were "discussions" between players after their tries.
TBH I never looked closely after that as we were too busy discussing the problems ourselves.. Somebody, it may have been Sam tapped Phelps on his head (an encouragement gesture) after Phelps had made the error for Wakeys last try.

It was Ainscough which i thought was a nice touch considering Phelps got in the way of what looked like an easy catch for Ainscough.

Just one of those things that. I'd rather Phelps be doing those now and get them out of the way. He had a superb 2nd half to last year and i'd love to see him carry that form through to this year with one or 2 improvments to his game.

Aye the dummy runner came inside and our centre (can't remember who it was) took him. Tomkins tried to run outside to get to the guy who got the pass but the dummy runner carried on his run and legitimately got in his way, leaving them with two on one, easy try. I'm not sure who was to blame to be honest, they were both man-marking rather than playing a sliding defence. I didn't think teams used man-marking anymore.

you must of gone different games to me then pal

And me, and the ones i watched again on the tv.

Highlights of all last years superleague games are still available to watch on superleague tv on the superleague website.

Ainscough was also one of the players last season who always had a few words to say after conceeding a try.

As for the game itself, I didnt go but I do realise that it was a friendly, 110 per cent effort will not have been used for it as players are more worried about getting injured than the actual game in my opinion - afterall when is there ever a good intense friendly game?

(except those boxing day scuffles against Saints)

You are obviously too young to remember the old Wardonia / Locker Cup games v Warrington. It was war on the pitch. I can remember stand up fights between the players, sending offs and mass brawls.

What a great way it was to start a season.

Great games those. Gave us a little bit of bragging rights as it seemed to be the only trophy wigan didn't win back then!! Tony Burke, never even sin binned in his time at saints, first game for wire - Locker Cup v wigan. End result = Red Card!!!!

Usually "Sorry lads"

A few times last year, when our line was broken and last line of defence was Phelps, he had a tendency to step up to quickly. Then the attacker would just step round him and make it look easy. A few occasions this happened, but as we are generally a fast team anyway, when teams do break our line, they rarely get a chance 1 on 1 against Phelps anyway.

I think you're mistaking him for Kevin Penny.

A good post.

I acknowledge the good points you make regarding how many games Phelps has played at fullback which must be taken into consideration, but I would hope to see greater defensive improvement. I realise it was only one game, but defensively (towards the back end of last season - Huddersfield away anyone?) and this first friendly I am concerned about Phelps' positioning close to the line and his vulnerability which could be down to lack of experience in the position as you have previously alluded to. I just hope over the course of the season we can see this areas rectified and Phelps' can become a more complete player. But in todays modern day Rugby League fullback is such a pivotal position and it is so important that Phelps' doesn't become a weakness in our side with his defensive frailties. I hope that with good coaching from Kris Radlinski and Mike MaGuire we can see an improvement over the course of the season, but then again for Phelps' sake he can't leave it too late because his contract runs out at the end of the year.

In response to your question in the second paragraph I am pleased Phelps' has managed to find his feet at fullback. His performances have been good and he has proven very capable. But I would also argue (as you allude to) that we haven't exactly had the cream of the crop playing there at the club. Pat Richards was the best of a bad bunch - Roberts was poor and Richie Mathers was dire. It wouldn't be hard to improve on those players. So acknowledgement to the fact he has cemented his place in the team, but it's not as though we had a Brent Webb or Brett Hodgson competing for that position. We were desperate and Cameron did better than the rest.



I was hoping that his 'tackling and catching techniques' would have already been improved upon in training this year and we might have seen it in the friendly against Wakefield. It could just be (as Noble might say) ' a bad day in the office', but Phelps' has had trouble in defence in the past and so that is why I doubt this was the case. Richards had a poor game and I would be more inclined to use that cliche towards his performance than Phelps'. The bravery point I couldn't agree with more. The lad has so much heart and really puts himself in some real danger at times for the benefit of the team. I don't think he's a bad player and I think he could be a great fullback. His attacking attributes from playing stand off at Reserve Australian level is there for all to see. But at times his defence can let him down and it is becoming a reoccurrence in his games. It started as a one off and then it became a problem as it became more prominent in his game.



I agree.



It was a factor and the point about the Paul Deacon signing is true. I think we also lacked composure close to our opponents line and maybe the creative spark to unlock tighter defences. The lack of fire power in the forwards may have been another contributing factor towards this.

But my point about Phelps is just that he could be a weakness in our team. An area for opponents to target and gain great success from, which at fullback is worrying because it is such a pivotal position and very defence orientated - it's the last line of defence. A nervous and unsure fullback who is in two minds whether to take a kick on the full or let it bounce is not good and should be a concern to the coaching staff. I wouldn't make too much of a fuss yet for this season because it is a clean slate for all players and it has only been one game. But should it continue I think we may see a few more people get a bit more twitchy about Phelps' at fullback.

My opinion on better fullbacks that Phelps' in Super League (which my prove unpopular) but bias aside:

Clint Greenshields
Brett Hodgson
Brent Webb
Shaun Briscoe
Paul Wellens

All the above players have had great success with the teams they play for and each one have made a significant contribution to that success. You take each of those players out of that side and it would leave a big hole. Do you think Huddersfield would have been as successful last year if they hadn't signed Brett Hodgson? Do you think Hull KR would have been as good without Shaun Briscoe? I don't think they would have. I thought each player had a huge part to play in the success of the team.



The point you make in brackets is part of why I am a little concerned. I would have expected Phelps' to come back a much improved player after a full pre-season on the back of a Super League season at fullback. From reports that doesn't seem to be the case. Perhaps we haven't started much ball work yet and been more fitness oreintated? Could have just been 'one of those games? We'll soon find out once the season begins. I think it should fair to say that if Phelps' doesn't improve from last season we look somewhere else for a new fullback? That is my view on the matter. He had a good season last season, but needs to continue to keep making strides in his game.



Without doubt. I hope MaGuire is monitoring him over the course of this season at Melbourne. At least enquire so we know where we stand. Fullback is a position we could definitely look to strengthen.



Nah don't worry about it - I knew that. It's what these forums are for. Rugby League debate is great.

Richie Mathers' catchphrase

tbh, just taking the hudds away game (round 27) as an example - you should watch the highlights again closely on superleague TV, and you'll notice that we as a team were totally crap that day, and that pretty much every try we conceded was a team failing not 1 player cocking anything up. Multiple players were at fault for the trys, including Sam and Lockers. You may find if you go back through the games that he wasn't as bad as you're remembering.

I was surprised on seeing some of the games that we weren't as bad or that particular players weren't as bad as people were talking about. It's quite good to seem them again now when there's no emotion involved.

Who?

Also known as Martin Offiah II

You sure of that?

x 8 Million!!

Appologies Joel for brett hodgson's first try, and also number 13 and a bit reminiscent of Todd Flanders. Also one later in the match where I think lockers completely gets in the way of Phelps