Who WAS Charlie Seeling or CP Wigan.

I don't know but im sure he will be back soon.

i think we're the only team to lose players because their partners want to go to Oz. we're far to nice!
At the min i would be selfish and keep hold of him. He's one of our best prospects and we let him go. There is no knowing whether he'll come back a better player, he may just end up playing reserves, getting injured etc. At the moment he's playing well, cermenting a place in the first team so why change something thats not broken.

Maybe the players who are slightly younger and that aren't needed in the next year or so. Not someone who's 22 and becoming a first team regular.

Jonh, I agree with everything you have said thus far on this thread.

I didn't quite get what the big problem was with jonh saying Mossop will be used as a prop mainly during his Wigan career.

I'd agree with that assesment due to 2 things- firstly his build and secondly due to us having a lackof top quality front rowers and a shed load of backrowers.

I'm sick of the derailings so people can have arguments on pointless technicalities. Although I'm a bit worried that they genuinley believe that they have not done anything wrong, when in fact they are using aggresive language, but are quick to point out anything on the other side. However, I am disapointed in John for feeding the trolls

Appologies. I just like to give them enough rope.....

Flanagan going to Aus IMO is a great idea. He could come back a much better player and while he is there we can let other players continue to develop.

It is not like we have a shortage of backrowers and we also have Mossop to play there untill he can hit the big time in the front row.

IMO Hansen and Bailey will not be needed at Wigan very soon as we have better players coming through.

We should have the whole of the back row and one prop and also Sam Tomkins in the team for a good 10 years, all players come through the ranks.

With our backs playing well this year and such a talented and young backrow, all our efforts will no doubt go into the props next year which is good news although I wish it had happened sooner.

If only your level of discussion was as high as your opinion of yourself.

I don't get what Jonh has said that is a) wrong, or b) sounded like he has a high opinion of himself.

He's stated his own opinions, that's what the board is for, most of which i agree with, especially that Mossop will more than likely in a few years move to the front row.

You and the other one are just picking arguments for the sake of it and not actually contributing anything towards the discussion, so whats the point in you being here?

Flanagan going to Oz seems a great move for all tbh, he's not guaranteed a first team place here, he would get a few games but is likely to be rotated around if he stayed, plus he actually wants to go to Oz with his missus and will therefore play week in week out at a higher standard in different surroundings, the experience he would bring back just from a couple of years abroad would set him apart from most already.

Problem is that he's out of contract at the end of the season, so hopefully we can get some sort of deal sorted with him so that if and when he does return we get first refusal, or we keep hold of his rights so that if he doesn't return to us we at least get some form of compensation.

I agree a good sign will be if those two are released at the end of there contracts, it'll mean the club are no longer settling for one dimensional players. A backrow of Lockers, Joel and Mossop with Farrel on the bench sounds good for 2011.

Hock comes back half way through that year as well

I think we need Bailey for 1 more year now Hock is out, we need 1 experienced secondrow to lead that area.

It's such a tough one I've not doubt that were Hock still here Bailey would have definitely been let go at the end of this year but now I doubt it, the backrow that I named was for 2011 because I anticipated that there's a high probability that Bailey will be given a new deal, although it should only be one year anything else would be a mistake. So that come the end of 2010 we'd have Phelps, Bailey, Coley, Fielden, Feka and Presscot of the top of my head all of contract, so that gives us plenty of cash available for the positions we do need to recruit in.

I would agree but what is more important, a prop for next year? or an experienced average player?

I think we should get through next year with the experience of Hansen and Lockers in the backrow and sign a prop. Bailey's money should get us a very good prop.

I would hope we could bring in a good Prop and retain Bailey, may be too optomistic though.

If it were a choice between a top Prop and Bailey then I agree I would take a Prop every time.

If we re-sign Bailey doesn't that mean that we will have re-sign all of the players who were out of contract at the end of this season bar Smith?

If you look at each player individually you can make a case for re-signing them all. People have done this with Phelps, Coley and TL already.

The trouble is by doing this then collectively we end up with the same team as this years don't we and it has not been good enough has it?

Everybody has said we a need a classy rough house prop forward and so IMO one or more of some peoples "favourite" players out of the list of those we have re-signed should have been sacrificed in order to free up their wages to sign such a player.

Bailey is a classic case as with his and Hock's wages surely that would be enough to go for one real class player? In fact you probably would not need to spend all of it if Bailey is on as much as people seem to think.

The steady re-signing of our out of contract players this year bar Smith has left us with the same team for 2010 as this minus Smith and Hock.

That has got to mean we will be a worse side than this season particularly if Noble gets another year and sticks with playing the established players at every opportunity.

Dave

You are right, if we sign Bailey again we will have a worse team, but we would have to hope for a new coach and that some players will improve.

Hopefully we will sign a new prop and we will improve in the pack as this would also improve our backs.

The fact you highlighted we have resigned players based on personal performances is so true. TL is a good player and yes he will do the job but I can't help thinking tough decisions have to be made to run a RL club on a SC and maybe we would of been better letting more players go but only time will tell.

There's no doubt that if we go with the same squad next year as we have this then it will be a weaker squad, but what choice do we have. Lenegan's already said that it's highly unlikely we'll sign anyone plus those he supposedly looked at he felt were not right for the club, so what do we do. It's glaringly obvious as to the area's that we need to strengthen yet as far as were aware 2011 will be the earliest that anything is done, we've obviously resigned most of are off contract players on 1 year deals to me signalling a large overhaul come 2011, why then when we could use there money now I don't know.

One word...Fielden.

I agree. Although Coley has been decent recently we should have taken the oppurtunity to get rid to free up some salary cap space. His salary freed combined with a chunk of Hock's would have allowed us to make a serious offer for a good prop.

Can you see the point I have been trying to make about Noble now? How can he be expected to improve the side when the side is getting worse each year. This year we lost Barrett and didn't replace him yet people expected us to challenge Leeds and Saints



Even as one of Noble's biggest defenders I agree this season has been a disappointment (so far) but will a new coach really take us to this "next level" people refer to when the playing personnel is getting weaker each year?

Its not really that simple though, hopefully we will have a new coach with new ideas and new methods, we will hopefully have a complete new backroom staff who can bring the best out of our players so there should be improvement there.

I would anticipate Coley and Bailey if resigned would be on reduced terms from there original deals add to this the loss of Hocks wage and Smiths we should be able to upgrade our juniors and still have the cash to bring in a new Prop.

If we do not and go with what we have minus Hock and Smith we have shown we can live without both of them and indeed at times florish without them, players like Prescott, Ainscough, Mossop, both Tomkins, Gleeson, O'Carroll, Mossop, Riddell and Roberts should all improve next year, or at least a good percentage of them should, you would also hope Feka and Fielden are put in some kind of shape by a new conditioner.

Add the likes of Farrell, and more time for TL and Tomkins to play together to the squad and although not ideal i think we could significantly improve on this year assuming we do bring new coaches to the club, regardless I would certainly hope for some kind of improvement.

We do not have many ageing players, Fielden looks old but lets face it he can't get any worse.

Now i am not saying we could suddenly become World beaters but I think we could put a team out capable of beating most sides and push for a top 3 or 4 place which is a step in the right direction and then have us looking to crack the top in 2011 when we lose Fielden and his massive sallary.

What you say is true, but results at home and a few results away have just been shocking and the tactics in our biggest game for a while were shocking. I was in the keep Noble camp until saturday evening.

Sorry don't want to turn this into a Noble debate (there's plenty of them). Was just making the point that if we do get a new coach I would hope he is given time and not expected to take us to the "next level" in his first season.

I agree, especially with the team he will be taking over. 2 years at least before I will expect to win something.