Would that mean that the complaints some of you have, that you don't get it wide enough, are off the mark?

I think the complaint is we never go wide to the right. Our left attack is lethal whether it is Paaaat or Ainscough out there.

What's it go to do with you scouser?

If it was so lethal we would not be where we are in the league. It is for sure the place we go more often though.

Tbh guys that's not enough games to be statistically significant.


e.g. Form of team at the time, teams played against, centre partners, change in tactics etc etc

Our league position is not down to poor attack. We've the 5th best attack and 6th best defence which is a massive improvement on recent seasons. Its simply not being able to hold nerve to win tight games. We lack an experienced leader at 6 and 7.

Surely winning those tight games would be helped by scoring a few extra points. I do agree but it's not exactly lethal.

Ooh, you seem to be a bit tired and emotional.

Well obviously but you need half backs to create, thats their job and our main two (Smith and Leuluai) don't do it enough. Neither have a kicking game which is a must for any half back.

We've a better attack than Hull KR but they are on 23 points we're on 16. Why? Because Michael Dobson runs the show which nicked tight victories for them earlier in the season.

Very true, but on the other hand who runs the Huddersfield games?? Not really their 6 or 7 and look at their league position, people do under-rate the FB position alot, a key player in that position is by far a match winner...

Wellens
Greenshields
Briscoe
Webb

All game winners

Our prefered FB's Richards and Phelps aren't.. Roberts will be once he's back to his top standards!

While true, that's something of an oversimplification.

The games we win, on average, are the high-scoring ones, where we abandon the safety-first, possession, completion, one-up tactics. The games we lose, on average, are the low- scoring defensive battles where we stick to the above tactics.


Games lost: average total score=36

Games won: average total score=52

Personally, I don't mind how many we concede, as long as we score more. I prefer winning 36-28 to losing 12-6.

Oh dear, Dave O's in a mood again because he thinks someone's daring to disagree with his sacrosanct viewpoint.

I can't remember whether I personally called Calderwood crap or not. I may have done in moments of extreme frustration, though I don't recall doing it. The word from the club is that he had a crap attitude, but with hindsight he clearly wasn't used properly on the field. He was a victim of the same flawed system that prevents Roberts showing what he can do.

For what it's worth, something I said in a later post - which you've conveniently chosen to ignore - is that good players seem to become crap when they're at Wigan. That could equally be applied to Calderwood.

You can spare us this CP Wigan-inspired synthetic anger, Dave. No-one on this forum is fooled by it. What's genuinely unbelievable is that I could be bothered replying to what was clearly a kneejerk accusation which I sincerely doubt you'll be able to back up with facts.

Do we play more strongly to the left than the right, or not? And if so, does that go some way to explaining why our left winger scores more tries than our right? Let's have a straightforward answer for once, not a self-justifying sermon presented like some computer flow-chart.

Dave once you make your mind up there is no deviation is there regardless of performance?

Roberts has made so many more breaks than Calderwood did it is unture. Roberts finds spaces, Calderwood finds faces.

I do not think Roberts was a good or sensible signing but he is far superior to Calderwood. On the odd occasion Calderwood was given ball one on one he ran straight to the nearest face on the opposition side.

And just to prove Jonhs point.
[urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2009&hp1=2028&hs2=2009&hp2=266&stat=tries&season=2008[/url

Those stats prove that we've really got alot to work with in Roberts. I bet he'd be the first to admit he hasn't been at his best but he's done some very good things and hopefully as he continues to settle we can improve which will really help his game along. The team starting to attack abit more down that right side wouldn't go amiss either.

As is typical when a little bit of hypocrisy is pointed out the subject is changed. You know very well what the points of my post was. Much easier to have a sanctimonious pop at someone else than address the points raised isn't it? No one is fooled by that either.

Do you disagree the majority this board used to slag Calderwood off with no mention of the fact we always go to the left?

Do you disagree when people pointed out he received little ball people said he didn't go looking for work and should create his own opportunities,, therefore he was not the winger for us?

Well in case your memory conveniently fails you again, that is exactly what happend.

Now we have suddenly become such a left sided team it appears having a right winger who is ineffective is OK. It wasn't when Calderwood was here but it is now. The tune has changed and it must be a great revelation we are a left sided team because it was never mentioned with respect to Calderwood and has only become fashionable as people seek excuses for Roberts.

Why is that the case? Why is Roberts immune from the criticisms Calderwood got? Wigan turning good players bad is no answer because I am on about the different reactions of the fans, but you knew that anyway.

Roberts has done nothing to warrant the leniency he is getting on this board except get on a plane.

Dave

And Roberts gets caught when he makes a break. He simply isn't the player he was cracked up to be but for some reason people seek excuses for him that were never dreamt of previously.

Dave

Phelps is 24. Older than Thomas Leuluai...

Interesting that Briscoe has stated he would like to come back to Wigan one day.

[urlhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/hull_kr/8116482.stm[/url

I wasn't changing the subject.

I made the original point that it was too simple just to say that Roberts is crap. You then went off on one, saying that people didn't allow Calderwood the same latitude. Though I objected to your tone, I basically agreed with you that Calderwood was a victim of the same system.

But if what you're really complaining about is people's hypocrasy ... who the hell are these 'people'? If you mean the people who post on this message board, they probably represent less than 1% of Wigan fans. So why get so excited about it? Or is proving that you know more than most other posters a big thing for you? If so, it isn't much of an ambition.

Why have we suddenly become a left-sided team? I'd prefer you gave it some thought rather than flew in the face of a common perception by denying that it's happening. Personally, I don't understand why it is. Maybe someone with technical know-how can enlighten me, but the evidence is pretty undeniable.

You want my opinion, Dave, you have hobby-horse issues, and it's doing you no good. Mickey Higham is one, Ainscough another (and Roberts is clearly a hang-over from the latter). You used to be an interesting poster, but the more you dwell on these past injustices, the more irascible you seem to become if you even suspect that someone disagrees with you.

And take some advice, this pickng people's opinions apart para by para - even if you're right, it casts you as the teacher (and a boring one at that) and them as the pupil, and it's hardly likely to warm folk to your views.

And that's all. Have go back by all means, but I'm not getting into another day-long slanging match because you lost your temper. Again.

It's a theory that's never been tested.

So...play Ainscough on the right, and see what happens...

(I think he's played a fair bit of his second team rugby on the right...might even be his own preferrred option?)

Havent read what has been said in the previous pages but I hope that the person who said Carmont should be not be playing next year, will re-assess his silly statement

He played on the right wing for the Reserves on Sunday.

In my view we have not just become a left sided team this year. I think this has been coming for a few years now. Certainly for all the time Calderwood was here. He was helped a little when Barratt was around as we did use the right side a little more but not greatly so. When Carney was here we didn't seem to have that problem.

Talking about Carney reminded me that when he saw an opportunity he pinned his ears back and went for it, to great effect. Roberts does go for the gap when he sees one and has finished off moves which have needed finishing, if you get what I mean. Calderwoods problem was that he wasn't getting many opportunities but IMO those he did get he didn't seem to have the confidence to go for them, and as somebody has mentioned previously he would cut inside to the waiting arms of the cover defence.

So Reberts has it for me over Calderwood although he has some way to go to match Carney at his prime.