This is true too, it only serves to motivate the opposition and sets you up for a fall.

Are you for real?

This would be the front row that completely dominated Saints, Leeds and Catalans in succession with different personnel in May/June?

We don't need wholesale changes to the team and attacking structure. A bit of composure, a better kicking game and some more 'game smarts' and we'd have been in 2 finals.

I seem to remember us both discussing this around a month ago. I agree now as I did back then.

1. Lee Mossops attitude - his defence at times in the last 3 months has been shocking. If you constantly try to put big hit in like a billy big boots you need to make sure that you are succesful. He has appeared unwilling to bend his back in defence.

2. A plan B in attack rather than the same move time after time.

3. We need a dedicated kicking coach, or if we have one sack him. Briers and Sinfield have shown how effective a varied kicking game can be.

4. An end to Shaun Wanes repetetive pre and post match spouting that keep the tub thumpers happy but make most cringe and provide the opposition with things to pin up on the dressing room door.

5. A week on week strategy to ensure that the players are fit and firing at the right end of the season. Bitcon did wonders at the start of his reign with Maguire but we have not been 100% at seasons end for 2 years now and I wonder whether this has anything to do with the training, strength and conditioning strategy.

6. Discipline - Too many send offs and bans this year

Kicking game is a must. Leeds' tactics were just better than ours, they came with a well organised game plan, which worked. Sadly it was quite simple. Play field position and possession, don't let Wigan get into a position where they can attack and score.

How did they do this? Uses Sinfields excellent kicking game to pin us in our own half. Leeds knows we can't do anything with our kicks on the last tackle, so once we made our way up to the 40ish we kicked, often the wingers or fb could catch the ball on the full and keep us pinned in.

What baffled me is how we played into their hands with this, by putting an inexperienced FB v Sinfield and Smith (who's the only one who has something that resembles a kicking game) at 9. On the 5th he's be a dummy half rather than in a position to return a good kick.

Good post.

Mossop was slightly better in the SH last night but I think he has dropped off. Been saying this for weeks. IMO Fielden would have got in after his performance v Saints.
Everything else is pretty much spot on.

I agree with everything that has been said. For me the priorities are:

1. Kicking game on last tackle is atrocious. We would have done the double with a good kicker.

2. If Scott Taylor has signed great, but we need another experienced top class prop as well.

3. We need someone to replace Carmont. I don't think we will know how good he has been until we miss him.

4. MM is my favourite player but he needs to calm down a bit and we need another decent hooker to play some game time.

I think we're in the need of experience in the team. Ideally a prop, but we're looking at a young team for next season. Always good to have a mix of youngsters coming through, players in their prime, and experienced players for well... experience.

I also thought Waney commenting on the mcGuire disciplinary was very poor and would act as extra motivation for the Leeds team. Our coach needs to learn to keep it shut.

Wane is still a rookie in the role. Hopefully he's learnt from some of decisions in the media and as a coach. FWIW, I agree.

That young full back...Murphy is it?

You do know he is from Warrington don't you? Agent Murphy we call him

Gary Connolly was from St Helens, was he agent Connolly?

We need to make 1 improvement.

We need to be smarter in big games (in all games for that matter).

We had the home tie with Wire won and blew it.
We had the game at Widnes won and went to sleep.
We blew the Bradford and Saints games when MM was stupidly sent off. No excuses for either red card.
We had last night won and blew it with dumb plays and then a discipline brain fart on our own line.

We were league leaders, one point from GF and CC semi finalists. We have not had a bad season but let ourselves down in the big games. We need to learn from those games.

SW has introduced a great attacking flare and yes, it's built around the same structure but its worked a lot more times than it hasn't. Hopefully, he will learn a lot from this season and kick on for next.

I'm really not too worried about the structures but our kicking game needs to improve massively.

I also think its massively unfair to question Lee Mossops attitude. The lad has had a cracking season and run his blood to water.

We need more creativity in attack, with more 'off the cuff' rugby rather than the expected out the back to Sam. Sam's attacking threat from FB has been nullified because it's completely predictable now, so I'd move him back to the halves.

We need a kicking game.

We need bigger stronger pack, we're too lightweight and got thrown about like rag dolls against Leeds, barely making any yards.

But earlier in the season our pack destroyed whatever was in front of them! Leeds away, saints away are just 2 examples. We can't change the whole pack because of Fridays game. It has to be taken in context of the whole season.

Perhaps Tony Smith got is right in resting key players at the right time? We had far too many players who suffered injury setbacks in training etc. too many bans, too many penalties given away. Discipline can improve and so can kicking.

That was months ago, and since then our forwards have looked a shadow of what they were earlier in the year.

We need to be smarter.

Its as easy and as hard as that.

Correct

We've never picked it up after Tommy was injured. Finch at 7 with Lockers at 6 and Farrell going to 13 didn't work. Powell was injured and IMO the mistake was leaving Mellor at Widnes. He should have been brought back which would have allowed Lockers and Finch play in their usual positions.
We lost form and lost games which should have been won. Also Prescott has only played nine or ten games this year. Fielden's absence is another matter.
Wane has had a lot of his salary cap unavailable due to long term injuries.

Next year with hopefully Prescott, Mossop, Lauaki, Taylor and Dudson as our first five front rowers we'll have a massive set of props. They should set the platform for the half backs. Green and Smith will be new and need time. Thornley to replace Carmont.
One thing for next year surely is that we play more then the one friendly. Anyone who went to Salford for this year's friendly could see we were underdone. Hudds had 3 pre season games to our one and we lost to them in the opening fixture due to us being underdone. That has to change!

Wire will be the team to beat next year as this, their squad has more quality players than anyone else's and they've outbid all opposition in bringing them to the HJ.
With hopefully fewer injuries next year, no Fielden and Roberts, Wane will be able to rotate his squad and select the teams in certain games to do this.

Longer studs, I've never seen so many players from 1 team slip as much! I recall on Friday night Carmont got the ball in his hands after a Leeds mistake, no one in front of him and he slipped and lost all momentum!

glad some people on here dont have the nuclear codes in their hands - most of the world would now be ablaze.

we need composure and more grunt. all of this stuff about new attacking game is rubbish.

Kicking in my eyes is the key.. Sort that and rest should come.

Want more last tackle options - kicking

Questioning forwards attitudes? - put the other side on their own ten at the end of every kick for them to chase and tackle should soon sort that.

Want more composure? - get a kicker who knows when to push a deep kick and when to drill in to touch for a breather and turn the screw on

We have the best 2 kickers on our coaching staff Deacon and Harris and yet our kicking game is abysmal .Leeds have the kicking game well in hand Sinfield kicks to the corners and all the players know whats coming off and run accordingly .We kick and chase and hope for the best .Sprint coach for me is needed we looked yards slower than Leeds last Friday .Less of the hard stuff in training its caused more injuries than playing in SL.We have a flat line in attack and no second phase get the ball away from the play the ball as quick as possible how many times does the player who has just received the ball go back to the play the ball area instead of quick hands and away from the ruck.