Sam shouldnt be saying those kind of things imo, he could have easily sent bilko a private message without the world seeing

On subject, i dont think micky mac's tweet on sat was the most appropriate either - talk about giving wire motivation for the next time they play us!

I think he can be pretty proud of himself. As a normal fan just making a heat of the moment comment it must be crazy to think that the side has clearly used that as a big motivating factor in winning the big one. It's probably our finest trophy victory in decades.

Well done Bilko I say.

The week I said that three articles appeared in local paper blasting "critics", which was fair enough, but find it bizarre it's been dragged up still a over six weeks on. Anyway my point was more that Wigan could actually have rumbled on lost to both Hull and Warrington (after a poor July and August) and still won two games to be champions. In hindsight now they didn', which is nice.

People want the quality of rugby to be high all season and yet tell me that the LLS is worthless. Which is it? Do the team try to peak for the playoff and GF or do they aim to play perfect rugby all season and win the LLS?

It seems to me that Wane and the staff got it right, just as Leeds have done in pretty much all of their GF winning seasons (two from 5th place remember). If we are going to criticise the team and staff them at least keep it consistent and think about what you really want.

If people don't want to watch rugby league then don't buy a season ticket, but this season has seen plenty of brilliant games (the Hull KR/Salford game was just fantastic). Wigan won at the death so many times it is untrue. In Waney's first season we won by 50+ so many times and walked the LLS but ultimately lost the playoffs to Leeds. All the experts on here said it was because we hadn't won enough tight games and the team wasn't battle hardened. The league was poor. Now because the league is competitive and Wigan have to scrap for every victory, often with 10 players missing, people are still complaining about what's on offer.

It seems to me that Waney can't win with some people.

That pretty much sums it up for me. It's a sport where peaking at the right time is what matters. The rest of the season you simply have to do enough to put you in a position to give you a chance.

Just a thought. This season is the first time Wigan haven't been to Florida pre-season training for a while. Could that have had an effect on the poor ball skills particularly early on in the season, but also toughened them up physically and mentally for the grind to the end. It may be one to ask Wane, Rads and Mark Bitcon.

There's peaking, and looking clueless, we needed the in-between for more of the season.

I don't know whether you are harsh or provocative or both.

Case in point, in the middle of June we won a game at Widnes 7-0. But we had Nick Gregson, an Under 19 second rower, playing at Stand Off for heavens sake. Why would you criticise a team for looking 'clueless' under such circumstances. It was noticeable when Sam got in the team how the team looked much better, but fans are busy re writing history on that now that Sam is public enemy No 1. In fact around that time we gave debuts to Bretherton, Wells, Gregson, Shorrocks, Waterworth and Higginson - all of whom looked pretty much out of their depth (understandably).

When Wane said that you don't know the half of it - why don't you believe him? How can you practise attacking moves if everyone is injured???

A 'dislike' tinged with visceral loathing.

At present they are turning circles trying to excuse themselves for some of their comments earlier this season. One or two, meanwhile, are standing proud on those opinions, insisting the OT win had little, if anything, to do with Wane.

We all had concerns, but bare-faced churlishness never looks good.

the attack did not work because our basic ball skills were beneath that of an under 8's team. Balls from dummy half were all over the place. Passes in general play were awful and that broke down the attack. it had nothing to do with who or who was not in the squad. they are all professional rugby players and they should be able to pass a ball properly. just watch back some of the older games especially widnes and you will get my drift. As for ST he has been a journey man all season who in my humble opinion has added nothing but petulance on the field and nothing in skill. he looked something like when we went down to 12 men at Warrington. ST needs some serious man management skills as clearly has no awareness of how his behavior on and off the field effects those around him. We won the GF and that is great but as I have already posted I expect to watch good level of rugby all year. 2016 has substandard across the board, I have never turned a SL game off SKY and I have done this year for the first time. I have not gone to Wigan games for the first time this year as did not want to watch the dross were serving up. If that is something you are willing to accept that is your choice, I will by a GF ticket and be done. If too many others do that and I am not alone then attendance drop, salary cap spend reduces and we have a problem.

Yeah right.

I don't think anyone doesn't believe him. Why wouldn't we?

But I thought part of the culture we were suppose to be implementing into the squad was a style of play throughout the age groups. So that when the young lads step up, they do so into a system in which they are comfortable.

I fully understand the injuries this year played their part. Again, I do not know anyone who is suggesting otherwise. It seems to me like you are justifying why we had (up to that point) had an 'awful awful' season. In doing so you must concede that very people you are trying to prove wrong, you are in fact supporting their argument.

There have been many studies into this, and owners will always favour win maximisation over utility (enjoyment) maximisation, on the assumption that more wins leads to more profit due to more fans. I would say the evidence of Wigan over the previous 5 or 6 years does not necessarily back this up. We may well be making more money in the short term through winning (I haven't investigated this whatsoever) but the fan numbers are declining substantially. I believe our fans value both winning and utility fairly equally, thus a poor product on the field, no matter how successful will not lead to more fans.

For someone like Man Utd I would say they are definitely in the category of wins over utility. The fans who attend games may moan at the 1-0 wins, but the worldwide support base doesn't care too much about performance, just the prestige of winning.

As a fan I think you certainly have the right to make a judgment of how much enjoyment you get out of the money you invest into the club. And someone who get paid by that money does not really have the right to tell you if your judgment is right or wrong. For one person this is a profession, or the other this is a hobby for which they pay a fair price!

The only way our difference of opinion could be resolved is if we sit down with a pot of tea and biscuits and go through the season, I'll explain what I class as clueless rugby and you can try to explain the reasons for it. I'm talking about failing at the basics, not failing at open expansive rugby, I'm talking basic rugby league, 101 stuff.

Do you guys post on there?

Yesterday was absolutely disgraceful with some of the most disgusting personal comments I think I've seen in the main to other posters.
I know the thread that most of it was on seems to have been removed ???

No, I don't necessarily believe that good pre-season = good season. If you go on the Leeds forum they will have you believe that they would have won the treble again if their training pitch hadn't been flooded.

If you want an idea why we were so poor for most of the season in attack then listen to Waney's post match comments. He doesn't go into great detail but it seems there's a lot more to it than we realise.

What's the other forum people are referring to? WWfans?

Presumably. I do read it and post from time to time, but the tedious personal spats between posters (and between posters and mods) have made it a bit of a trial lately.

I do now very rarely. It's closing down soon isn't it? I think the way it is at the moment makes that not a bad option which is a real shame to say.

There seems to be some real issues amougst people on there that I can only presume stem from things that have happened away from the boards. I can count on one hand the amount of crossed words I've had with people on here in over a decade but I never take anything personal.


It is the fans site by the way purple.

Gave up on it several years ago, to be honest.

It's basically an ego show rather than a proper forum, with a small group of individuals simply unable to tolerate any views different to their own and constantly feigning inside info about the workings of the club. I suspect that it's also an ego thing with those who have big issues with IL and SW (they've demanded both be removed many times in recent years - how do you remove the club's owner, just out of interest?), as they didn't like them orginally and now just can't bear to admit that both men have done a great deal for Wigan RL.

A horrible place, to be honest, which will soon be history ... which might just mean, unfortunately, that some of its gobbier members then try to migrate over here.

Well as you know I post on both and a major difference between the two boards is the moderation is (deliberately) virtually non-existent over there and as a result things can get rather heated. They usually calm down in the end without people being banned.

Earlier in the year this place was like a morgue in comparison and several posters from here started cropping up on there and I don't think that was a coincidence.

As to it going away, that may not now be the case so you may be spared any invasion.

'Heated' being a euphemism for venomous, petty, pompous, narcissistic ... etc.

I don't include you in that, by the way. But there's a certain member over there who I'm starting to suspect is no real friend to Wigan RL, at least you don't get that he is from his online persona. He's tried to become a member of this site several times under different identities, almost always causing immediate acrimony and very quickly getting sussed and banned.

So if what you say is true, and all the cuckoos are staying that particular nest, then I'm more than happy.

Yeah, I used to be a mod on there, as you may remember, but I gave up on it several years ago.

Me three, good while ago now. I can't remember the last time I even logged on there.

Had a browse on it a couple of weeks ago for the first time in a few years.

Clicked out of it five minutes later. I might try it again in 2019

Not sure I understand why anyone connected with Wigan would be upset at the criticism for the dire performances and boring rugby earlier in the season (as long as it wasn't personally abusive). We are Wigan and we shouldn't settle for second best, let alone third rate performances. I'm old enough to remember the great Wigan sides being booed at CP by angry Wigan fans. Some of what we have seen this season has simply been unacceptable from a Wigan team. On the other hand the finish to this season has been up there with the Mission Impossible run of games, it was Wigan at its finest. You have to hand it to SW and the players, what a superb end to an otherwise forgettable season. Well done lads!