During the war

Are you saying the Gang of 4 were tax cheats and should have been prosecuted ?

Only saying that the crowd figures at the time always appeared to be lower than the actual number of supporters at a game and it was not just at Central Park. I was even told at the time to add 10% to whatever crowd figure was produced by the clubs because of the losses sustained on the non computorised and small turnstiles and entry to a stadium was by cash and not tickets. Not to mention the other ways of getting into a older stadium which you cannot do at a modern Stadium like the DW.

Draw your own conclusions about what was going on, but when it comes to comparing the crowd figures of the old grounds with those of new modern stadium, also think about the difference in the level of security of the older stadiums compared to that of the new modern stdiums with their computorised and full length turnstiles, alarms on exit doors, security company stewarts and no paying cash at the turnstiles.

Like I have said, you cannot compare the crowd figures of older stadiums like Central Park with those of the new modern stadiums like the DW when different circumstances in a different era are involved.

Now, in spite of less season tickets being sold and less away supporters coming the to the DW Stadium now, the crowd figures are claimed as being higher than in great days of success at Central Park during the sixties, eighties and nighties.

Which War?

First, Second or Cod?

But you are comparing them, and conveniently ignoring the seventies. Some of the crowds in the mid to late sixties were very poor.

You can only take factual information as provided by the published figures, not what "somebody told me"!!!

"The crowd appeared higher" that's an opinion. Would the Inland Revenue not have thought it a little strange, all these thousands of people not being accounted for?

So you are saying they were using illegal practices, thanks, just wanted to confirm.
I mean surely no-one can condone that can they?
No wonder we ended up owing the tax man so much back in the mid late nineties and ended up losing the stadium etc
Your also saying that there were hundreds/thousands of "Wigan fans" who were prepared to watch Wigan but didn't want to pay?
Nothing changed there then, except now they don't get in, just sit on forums like this, twitter and Facebook and constantly moaning about everything telling everyone what's wrong with the club whilst contributing F*** All

And here's me thinking the gang of 4 could do no wrong



PS
20 seasons prior to leaving Central Park average attendance 11,195 FACT (if I went back and included 70s it would be AWFUL)
Just counting Last 10 years at Central Park average 12,190 FACT
20 seasons up to 2019 at New stadium average 13,420 FACT

And when you consider the perception is LESS away fans attend now than previously it actually stand up very well that there may actually be MORE Wigan supporters going to align games than previously at Centeal Park

And pre empting your next get out clause. You've insinuated that our crowds over the last 20 years have been inflated by 1 or 2 bigger crowds a year.
Well, 8/9/10 times in those 20 years the largest crowd was virtually double or more than our average
It's nowhere near at the DW (to be fair I'm not sure about 2018/19) that Amy single attendance has been double our average.
In fact, without going all mathematical on you, the figures for the last 20 years at Central Park were inflated by a smaller percentage of games (1/2/3 larger games per year against Saints/Widnes/Warrington etc) and a lot of the smaller crowds were far lower than what we get at the DW.

if you did take the top 2 games a year off the average for those years the gap between our crowds at Central Park and at the DW would be even greater and the gap showing crowds at the DW which are bigger for last 20 years would be even greater FACT
This means our crowds are far more consistent now than they were at Central.Park

On other threads people have talked about Fridays/Sundays
Fact is our crowds have been greater when we have had a greater number of Friday games.

The big difference is between central park and DW is social media
Back in the day there weren't tens of thousands of no it all experts slagging every tiny little thing off consistently and trying to turn every positive into a negative and every negative into a disaster.
It's surprising our crowds are as decent given the way a large percentage of our supposed "Fan Base" seem intent on sabotaging and running us down.
Previous they just bored people to death at home or in a pub or supermarket, now they can moan and thousands of people hear and see it.

Yes, but what about the gang of four??

As Corporal Jones says, "They don't like it up um"

They, being the usual handful who never see anything wrong with the decining lack of season ticket holders, away supporters, poorer crowds and not winning trophies like in the past and a squad no longer at the level it should be for a top club like Wigan.


I only know that in the days of Central Park, supporters could in addition to watching Wigan, also watch Challenge Cup Semi Finals, Internationals and World Cup games, a pre season sevens competition, Amateur and Schoolboys Finals and Internation games, even the final of the Ken Gee Trophy.

Now at the souless joint DW Stadium, all Wigan supporters can watch are Super League/Play Off games, less Challenge Cup ties, a possible Academy Final and the occasional World Cup Challenge game.

No Internationals or other special games. Not even a game in next season's World Cup Competition,

And to add insult to injury, the club have to play games at other Stadiums like Leigh and Widnes, if games clash with the Latics if they are in the Premiership.

And some say that nothing is wrong with Wigan playing in a joint DW stadium and there is stll the same level of interest and better attendances then what they would have got in a new Stadium of their own.

We were duped by Whelan and the Council and it is time some in Wigan faced up to it!

We were laughing in 1999 when we moved to a new Stadium while Leigh, Salford, St Helens and Warrington were still playing in their out of date grounds at Hilton Park, The Willows, Knowsley Road and Wilderspool.

We are not laughing now!

bloody hell John Ferguson would have been happy with that side step and shimmy

so your argument that crowds are crap at the DW was blown out of the water with a 20 year average of the respective stadiums, so you resort back to the old but we used to play the Ken Gee cup at Central Park. Did we not play home games at Central Park v Saints, as thats another one of your arguments blown out the water as the average is inflated by good crowd v Saints. You really are clutching at straws with some of your arguments

yes we did have all these other games played at Central Park but times move on, and we wouldnt get any benefit from them being played at DW as we dont own the ground, as it is now a football stadium as we have been sold down the swanny by Whelan. But to keep reverting back to things 25-30 years ago about how good they were is just plain boring. We had the best side in the world at that point in time, but still our average attendance is worse than it is now

As a club a decision needs to be made about the future. Do we accept that the new owners can seemingly try to shaft us whenever they feel like the want a bit more money out of us or do we stand our ground and ensure that its the best deal for Wigan Rugby (or look into the possiblity of our own ground - yes we can all argue til the cows come home about the pros and cons of that one too). We get nothing from match day revenues ie beer and pie sales, so if our rent is going up, as a club we should really be pushing the Robin Park arena, and hold everything pre and post match over there, and stuff the new owners. as a set of fans we shouldnt buy another thing whilst in the ground, and let the bugger feel it with no match day sales. Take your own food / drink with you, and have pints pre and post match.

in terms of your clubs laughing at us you do realise Salford are about to move cos they cant afford to play at the stadium, Leigh dont own theirs, i can also add Hull and Huddersfield to that list

Yes Saints and Wire have nice new stadiums, so are probably quite rightly crowing it over us as fans, but what has it done for Wire, their forum is more negative than the Wigan forums and that takes some doing

Is that the same Salford that are being kicked out of their stadium?

Or Leigh that don't own their own stadium, and trsut me, have had numerous issues with the council over the cost of it

Correct, the Stadium at Leigh is owned by the Council which should have been the case at Wigan.

The Council did not make the same mistake twice!

They are not being kicked out, they have been offered the Stadium of Salford FC due to the horrendus cost of playing at the A J Bell Stadium. Sale Sharks and Salford FC who are part owned by well off ex. United footballers are now in the EFL with ambitions of going higher are going in a partnership to buy the AJ Bell Stadium.

According to a Salford Red Devils supporter who I know, he has told me that the club would be better off as the Salford FC Stadium as it is in the traditional heart of the City of Salford which is not the case where the AJ Bell Stadium is situated.

If the deal happens, Salford Red Devils from what I understand will have a Stadium of their own like they had at the Willows which is more than can be said for Wigan Warriors playing at the DW Stadium.

Yip - Still require a Time Machine Doc Brown or else your incessant regurgitation of the same old story means nothing
But still pointless replying as your not going to respond when you don't like Facts getting in the way - No reply to the attendances comparison I posted ????

No - They can't afford the Rent!
And if you think Salford City are going to "Give" their stadium to the rugby club !!!!

Anyway - I'm sure when they move to another new stadium/location their Attendances will rocket if they own it

Correct, Saford Red Devils cannot afford the rent, but before give your give your usual sarcastic and expert opinion of all things financial, I suggest you find out what is actually taking place in the City of Salford in order to improve things for all three clubs concerned.

And if they do move to the Stadium of Salford FC, be it owned or rented, attendances will not rocket as the capacity of that stadium is more to what Salford Red Devils already get in attendances.

A Stadium more or less full to capacity which is more than be said about the half empty DW Stadium for the majority of our games and the paying of a annual rent of £200,000 or more for the previlage of just turning up for games there..

And if things do not improve in attendances, the standard of signings and improvements in the style of play this coming season, Wigan also could end up in a similer situation as Salford Red Devils, but unlike the City of Salford, the Borough of Wigan does not have any other Stadium alternative except for the Leigh Sports Village Stadium, home of Leigh Centurions or a move to Bolton.

Some supporters need to get off their high horse and face the reality of what is happenning in Wigan compared to what is happening in St Helens and Warrington.

p.s. And its not just where Rugby is concerned!

Do you go to watch Wigan rugby league play live?

It requires a yes or no answer not a side step as per normal.

So I was right, they aren't being "Given" that stadium and you Don know if they're going to own it and will probably rent it, but I'm wrong?



And

I'm absolutely gutted that we don't rent a 5k stadium that will have 2 to 3k rattling around it
Because commercially it's always better to have 2k to 3k fans with a bit of an "atmosphere" than 12k fans in a 25k stadium
Makes perfect sense



But above all else, the question that I want to ask and receive a straight reply about is this.

What are you actually trying to say/achieve?
Across a hundred threads over the last 3/4 months you've reiterated the same old same old dressed up in slightly different words, and why challenged about any of it you dont return to that thread only to pop up on another one virtually saying the same old things over and over again.

We get it

Things are not as good as they were under the gang of 4 in your eyes (I would dispute "some" of that)
It's Whelans fault, and the councils that the stadium was built in the way it was, with the legals surrounding it etc. And it shouldn't have been (again I agree with "Some" of that, although you conveniently leave out it was the gang of 4s antics that assisted in this happening and leaving the door open for whelan)
Leneghan needs to spend millions that he hasn't got on building a ground that the council probably won't give us the planning permission to do so (I dont know where to start with this on, its been done so many times but people keep going on about it, but to be honest your not the only one who keeps bringing this up).
Leneghan should have more money (yip, it would be lovely if he did).

So come on , here's your chance, just come out and finally explain what your point is.

Lenghan should put the club up for sale?
Your a billionaire who wants to buy it and everyone should listen to you and the great future you have in store for Wigan?
Etc

Top line is, you have a lot of opinions about what should have happened, what did happen (not all.of them are factually correct btw) but what are you trying to achieve? What are you trying to say? What should happen next?

I suspect there won't be an answer to that and every thread is going to get multiple replies where you harp back to one of the above subjects without actually having a point

What are you on about?

I have only said that Salford Red Devils are involved in a possible deal to move to another stadium as a result of being unable to pay the rent of the A J Bell Stadium.

We can only hope that the same nevers happens with Wigan, especially as the DW Stadium is now owned by a rich foreign owner who has already shown that he cares nothing about Wigan Warriors and the game of Rugby League.

As for you saying that I keep saying the same thing over and over, you don't do to bad yourself with your constant defence of all things IL and constant comments about £20 million being needed to buy the club.

Anyone who comes on here will no doubt have noticed if anyone says anything about the running of the club or comments about playing at the DW Stadium, you are like a greyhound out of a trap to have a go at them.

In my case, I will join the majority and say nothing futher about thhe enjoyment of watching games at at the souless DW Stdium.

Promise?

I promise, on the condition you don't break any eggs that you chase!

Victim mentality - It's always the same - The people that claim to be not scared of "Telling it like it is" don't actually like others responding with other points of view

You said Salford were laughing at us, Leigh were laughing at us, Hull were laughing at us
We pointed out that they were in no place to laugh at us and you were exaggerating the situation for your own personal reasons

Yip - £20million - If IL has £20million now and it isn't enough then it makes sense that until someone comes in who has more to take control of the club (Not just be in the background like Danson) then we have to cut our cloth accordingly.
So all talk of spending 20million on a stadium etc.etc. is irrelevant especially when IL is having to use around 1/2 million pound a year on average over the last 5/6 years to keep the club running - not bad considering you won't even spend £20

And as for you being the "Majority"
You may very well be right if what you mean is "Moaners" - However if you mean in the majority with regards to YOUR opinions I'll have a small bet that your not. Mainly because your opinions are based on what happened 30 years ago, who was to blame (In your Biased eyes without looking at certain facts) and never about what could be done realistically moving forward to solve the solution. I challenge you to buy a ticket for a game for a start

Honestly mate, I know what you are trying to do and how you can't let it slide but he's absolutely playing you and getting the reaction he wants.

There's a few different opinions on here, some I don't agree with, but they are reasoned and bend to the discussion points. The trolls are the ones that repeat the same points and don't answer the questions put forward.

I agree

And he can "Play Me" as much as he thinks he wants - And I'm only reply when it suits me (Sat on train going to work - Sat on train coming home - Blah Blah blah)

My point is that people do believe these WUM's
They create the negative impression that they want for their own Keyboard Warrior purposes

I know who Wigan supporters are, I see, speak to Dozens of them every week, Hundreds of them over the year when I'm at the match (Home & Away), in the pub, At Cricket matches, Bowling matches etc. etc.

As you say, lots of people have differing opinions and 99/100 there is common ground
Unfortunately the biggest influencers out there are Twitter/Facebook & forums (I think forums are a small but loyal % in the main and the others are far worse, but luckily for me I don't go on there) and I'd wager that less than 50% of the people who regularly criticise the club on those platforms actually go to the games

As I said to Rogues the other day - I'll just point out when people are talking rubbish,I suppose the trouble is with RD and some of his predecessors is that it's easier & quicker to spout rubbish, half truths dressed up as facts than it is to respond with some element of fact based reply.

But so be it

We had a discussion the other day about Squads for 2022/2023 - we may not have agreed but there was logic, understanding etc.
There was conversation on the rumours thread were there is an acceptance that we don't know the full picture and some would want lots more updates whilst others like myself only want it when it's Done so to speak.
What came out of that is exactly my stance on things

There is common ground - But the WUMS drive a negative narrative so consistently to the extreme that it appears when I "Come out of the traps like a Greyhound" that I am a Happy clapper etc when the reality is the extreme of one opinion drives people like me to over compensate the other way.

I think on those replies on other threads I mentioned above I criticised IL/KR numerous times, so I do acknowledge mistakes.
What I won't do is Blame Brexit/Covid and any other negative out there on IL/KR just because it's the "In Thing" to do.

A lot of those people were telling us IL/KR etc. (And Wane 1st time round) were Rubbish/Poor/The devil incarnate for the 10years we were winning, 19.20.21 have just given the ammunition that makes them think they were right for the 10 years before.

Fair enough and I know you got what he was trying to do.

Don't get me started on the FB groups. They make some of RD's opinions look normal.