Talk of resting players now to save something for the playoffs that only start in 7 months time is ridiculous. There is a full season to go yet and a player left out for a game now will feel no fresher for it come September and October. They may even be out injured by then. The time to look at resting the big names to save their strength is from about the cup semi finals onwards that way the week off that they get is close enough to the big games to actually make an impact on preserving energy levels.

It is right that some squad rotation should occur (2 or 3 positions max per game) throughout the season but the focus of it at this stage is to give game time and experience to young/fringe players when games are less high pressure. So that when games are more important (clinching a top2/top 4/top 8 spot, cup semi final/final, playoffs) they can be called upon if needed and confidently step in. Getting game time early on when pressure is lower also allows those capable of becoming regular first teamers to stake their claim for a spot without the players themselves having the worry that their own inexperience/nerves could de-rail the season, reducing the chances of this affecting their performance.

Some people are also getting a bit too hung up on the 'being champions from 5th place' thing that Leeds have managed. Leeds are as good as they ever were in the last decade, they are just older (in the main) and the league campaign is no longer the two horse race that it has been since the start of SL (whether it was between Sts & Bradford/ Leeds & Sts or any other dominant pair in any given season). Us and Wire have joined Leeds and Saints and with Hudds and Catalans interchanging there are now a dominant 5 each season as opposed to a dominant two and any of the 5 can beat any of the others in a given game. In the last two seasons Leeds have just managed to win against all of those from the top 5 that they met in the games that ultimately decided the championship. Any of this seasons eventual top 5 could do the same (wherever they finish within the top 5) as all are capable. It's just that so far only Leeds have managed it. Leeds didn't rest the squad and settle for 5th (Sinfield played in every game for club and country and the likes of McGuire, Burrow et al only missed when injured) it's just that with more teams now capable of winning the trophies finishing 5th now is largely the same as finishing second in the first 15 or so SL seasons. That is where the lowest of the realistic title contenders will end up.

One does wonder how the club coped back in the early nineties in order for them to win the league and cup double? Oh and the fact they had the mid-week distractions of the Lancs cup and Regal trophy (which we usually won as well). Don't remember the mass rotation then either, Mission Impossible season anyone? Sheesh!

They could have done so last year and that is a fact. The way you try and do it is not to blow the easy games and there [iare[/i easy games whether that is the politically correct thing to say or not. You get the points in the bag whenever you can. That is how you try and win a league and always has been. It's got nothing to do with Wigan being superior to other sides.

As to there being no incentive to win the league that doesn't matter given that was Wane's aim so given that is what he wanted to do he should have approached the season differently so as not to leave us chasing games just before the play offs.

This is just common sense.

If Wane wanted to win the league that much he was prepared to flog his players that much in the last couple of Weeks of the season and not peak for the playoffs, then he is a doilum.

Indeed they came up short at the final hurdle but they learned some lessons from the previous season and at least made OT last season

last season we peaked at Headingley, we never came close to that form again, and were scraping wins 2nd half of season.

so is it the rotation or the training methods that are to blame?

personally i wouldnt rest key players against weak opposition, i would play a full strength side and hopefully hammer them.
I would however rest players in games they might get beaten up in...Wire, Leeds, Catalan.
Gift them the points, we can make it up later ........and go into the play offs fairly fresh

personally, i think the squad rotation issue last year is a red herring.
every team hits their purple patch at a different part in the season, ours was the middle third.
the loss in form afterwards i put down to 2 key factors :
lima and finch went missing as soon as they sorted out their future
tommy (great loss)

then, when we needed to raise our game for the semi, key players were missing (either physically or mentally)

wane did very well last year getting youngsters experience, and learned a lot compared with the season before under madge. the play-off loss to leeds was one where the final decision was in the refs hands. he gave a pen to Leeds, he didnt give one to us. By such small factors are seasons judged. This 'rub of the green' is something which sport throws up and you just have to live with it.
The CC loss to leeds was down to them outplaying us and Sam having a complete mare in the forst half. well played leeds on that one.

Wane in his first season did a very good job. If I were to put the blame on anyone last year it would be on the senior players not him. this season will be interesting, because without the strength in depth, we are even more reliant on smith/green/sam/lockers/micky. lets hope they have learned their lessons from last year.

Careful ... pointing out realistic alternatives may get you branded with heresy on here.

And any suggestion that Wane getting anything right, even by accident, is an offence punishable by insults and derision..

Cracking post

As is any suggestion he doesn't walk on water.

So the coach is blameless for the loss of form and made no contribution to loses in key games such as selecting a rookie full back in the semi final? Then surely by the same token the fact we won the league is nothing to do with him either. That was all down to the players a well? Lima and Finch were according to you already on a plane and Wane just left it at that? Tommy gets injured and so it must have been Lockers who decide to play at 6 in the CC semi-final not Wane's choice.

The only conclusion to draw from your post is we don't need a coach.

That is the only conclusion if you only want to believe what you want to believe. Why does everything have to be so black and white with the Shaun Wane bashers?

once again Dave you choose entirely to misread someone elses post. please read carefully what i said and do not add your own interpolation to suit your own agenda. the only conclusion from your post is that you are unable to read someone else thoughts in an impartial way.

1 the topic of the post was squad rotation, not the de-ification of SW. at no point have i said that SW was blameless, just that he is being cast as a pariah for winning the LLS and losing narrowly to a champion outfit in 2 semis.

2 the thrust of my argument is that the marquee players are MORE culpable than SW for the NARROW losses to Leeds. i have never said that SW was blameless. the point of big name players is that they stand up at the key points in the season, Lima did this when we won the CC. Finch did this in the run in to the GF win. However, last season, once they had sorted out their futures, their form dipped badly. We've seen it before from imports and we shall see it again. It is very difficult for teams to cover this kind of drop in form from players who are SUPPOSED to be the leaders. It doesnt matter who the coach is, if the players hunger has gone NO ONE will motivate them.

3 please read my post. the loss in the SF to leeds i said was down to us losing to a better team. this happens in cup comps. no conspiracy. no rant at ST, who played appallingly to gift leeds possession and tries. they won fair and square.

4 accordingly to you, a team should never have dips in form. they should continue to win regardless. as i stated, we hit our purple patch mid season. this happens throughout a season. i suspect that you are the only person that blames the coach for not being able to maintain probably the best run of form in 15 years. the good thing about the final third was that we continued to win, despite not being on top form.

5 if you read my comments regarding the play off, you will see that I again blame no individuals. if we had been given the penalty with a minute to go, which the ref could easily have done, we would not be having this conversation. the play-offs are a cup competition, and whilst we could have played better and not let the ref be the decider of the game, it all came down to 2 judgement calls. as for the blooding of the rookie FB, i dont recall that it was any of his mistakes that led to leeds scoring, so why single him out ?

i will just summarise my views again

1 SW in his first season in charge did i good job of rotating the squad. by no means perfect but a lot better than MM did the previous 2 seasons

2 it was SWs first season, and given the expectations at the start of the year, he did pretty well. in fact, lets be honest, his performance was as good as any of our coaches bar MM since the advent of SL.

3 the senior pros let us down badly in the big games. Finch, Lima and Sam all were very disappointing.

4 Losing Tommy was huge. It was only in his absence that we truly appreciated his impact.

5 Losing to leeds in cup matches is no disgrace, as they have proved to be the best in SL. they even raised their game again last Friday to give the Aussies a real good fight.

I agree with all the points you made (not just the one quoted) but in reference to the bit in bold, we didn't sign Finch until 2011. Deacon played at 6 during the end of 2010. Someone else who stood up during that run IMO was Prescott at Headingly in the playoff semi after Leeds had beaten us at home. (Not forgetting the Rugby Gods' contribution of course).

Indeed. Wane made mistakes last year - quite a lot of them, he also got us playing some of the best rugby we've played in the last 10-15 years. The key this year for him will be to ensure that top quality stuff is played at the right time of year, in semi-finals and finals.

Beautifully put.

You don't do irony do you?

The post I responded to exonerated Wane and laid the blame at the players feet. That is obviously incorrect so I put forward the opposite position in equally one sided terms. I would have thought what I was doing was obvious



If the penny hasn't dropped yet we ended up where we did because the both Wane and the players made mistakes.

i take it you didnt hear what wane said at the last supports meeting as to his reason for picking murphy at full back?

I replied to exactly the points you made. I suggest you re-read your own post.



You said "If I were to put the blame on anyone last year it would be on the senior players not him."

You never actually mentioned the LLS or that he was being cast as a pariah at all !!!



What you did was come up with a series of excuses to exonerate Wane as you are doing here. This bit "It doesnt matter who the coach is, if the players hunger has gone NO ONE will motivate them!" is complete and utter nonsense. It is his job to deal with that.

There is also of course the fact it is only your opinion that Lima and Finch were already on the plane not a fact. While Lima's form dipped there is was nothing to suggest Finch gave anything less than 100% and I think it it's completely disingenuous of you to suggest otherwise.



You ignored the team selection Wane made for that game. There was plenty of debate on here about Lockers out of position and that it would be a mistake to play him at 6. One of the reasons Leeds were a better team was down to Wane's team selection. In fact IMO Wane dealt with the loss of Tommy particularly badly.



I don't accord any such thing. I do understand the coach has a big influence over how the team plays.



Er... Murphy was at fault for two of their tries but he shouldn't have been on the pitch. Plenty of debate about that team selection as well but that isn't the point as it is just one example that shows Wane has a much greater influence over how the team plays than you make out.



And I disagree with all of them. He didn't do a good job rotating the squad. He cocked it up. The fact it was his first season is irrelevant as is being as good as anyone bar MM. Being Wigan coach is not the place for on the job training and what he clearly decided do was change the way the team played compared to Madge which is IMO his biggest mistake of the lot. Instead of continuity he changed things completely. The senior pros did not let us down badly and Wane made a right mess of handling Tommy's injury. And finally while losing is no disgrace that doesn't mean Wane didn't contribute to the losses.

There is one point you have failed to mention though and that is this. If you are going to say this:

"If I were to put the blame on anyone last year it would be on the senior players not him."

then it must follow that it was down to the players and not Wane that the team played as well as it did early in the season and won the LLS.

Now I don't think it is as black and white as that but with you it seems to me Wane gets all the credit for what was good about last season and none of the blame for what was bad about it.

It would have been pretty hard for me to hear that since I wasn't there. You could have saved some time by simply posting "At the supporters meeting Wane said he picked Muprhy because...."

Care to clarify?

Dave.
re Tommys injury. Why did Wane make a mess of handling it? Given the fact that the back up scrum half (Sam Powell) was out with a broken leg and he signed a replacement scrum half (Matty Smith) about three weeks after Tommys injury.

... because pat richards( the person who yourself and many other fans including myself thought should have played there) felt he wasnt upto the modern full back role and could do a better job on the wing.Im all for people having an opinion on here but when you have a senior player telling a coach he can do a better job for the team playing on the wing then on this one your wrong to keep ranting on about it.

for me wla sums it up perfectly... wane made mistakes but he also had us playing some fantastic rugby, hopefully this time we will play the good stuff at the right time in the season.

Leeds only scored one try and that was as a result of Brett Finch throwing the ball on the floor while we were attacking Leeds' line.

I like how in one breath you criticise Wane for replacing Leuluai with O'Loughlin an older player being moved out of position but someone who has covered the halves in the past. Then criticise him for playing Murphy, a like for like replacment rather than reshuffling the team.

While I am on the Leeds game I think its a game we should have won and were overall the better team. However if people are looking for reasons as to why we lost how about the fact that Sam was out injured, it was only Leuluai's third game back, McIlorum was banned and we were playing O'Loughlin as replacement hooker to begin with. These are problems with the entire spine of the team, most of which are beyond Wane's control. Is it that surprising we were out of sorts.