When Sam has played 250 games for his club, and scored nearly 200 tries, and has 4 grand final winner's rings, then you may have a point.

I suppose you think he's now also better than Sean Long ever was ?

Well, whatever Longy did after leaving Wigan doesn't count for anything important, so yeah...

Why, thank you. Your response proves my point.

Not sure how demonstrating the achievements of either player would prove who is/was the better player. That is measured by other criteria, passing ability, tactical thinking, kicking, positional play etc. Basing the assessment according to your criteria would mean Sean Long was a better half back than Andrew Johns.

More meaingless tosh from a self-admitted poor quality troll.

Ian Gildart and Ian Lucas played hundreds of games for Wigan and had loads of cup final winning trophies, medals etc. And all they were were solid, unflashy club-players.

As for 200 tries, you need to give the lad a chance. If he'd already had half a dozen years in the top flight he could be well on the way to scoring that many.

Any other points you'd like to make that we can laugh at you for? You've already done pretty well so far.

He will be telling us how good Richie Matchers is/was!!

Thats M A T H E R S

Compared to Amos Roberts, he played like Kris Radlinski

Please direct your response to the poster who made the original fatuous comparison.

You better have a word with your mate Deano who made the comparison in the first place. I was just trying to give it some context.

awful attempt

No need. Your attempts to prove him wrong were meaningless, and rightly lampooned.

That would be django then!

All I was doing was pointing out the obvious - that Tomkins is a better player now than McGuire was at his peak. No criticism of McGuire, he was and is a good player but Tomkins is set to become a legend of modern RL (assuming he stays injury free). He has the potential to reach (and possibly surpass) the level that only KFC and Farrell in the SL era have reached, but he is already the best player in SL, as I said on another thread recently (well, unless Pat can rediscover his form from last season (

), in which case Sam will have some competition).

Tomkins is a superb player, he's a very special talent and can do things that other players can't. Added to that is an incredible will to win.

If I were to sum Sam up I'd say he is like a more naturally gifted version of Shaun Edwards. I know that is very, very high praise indeed and some Wigan fans might regard that as blasphemy, but that is how good this lad is.

Here's one for ya. He is joint top clean breaker in Super League (despite us being a match behind) and on average per game he is the top tackler buster in the league. Tough little cookie!

That's irrelevant. Ricky Bibey has two CC winners medals. That doesn't make him a good player.

Its relevant.

Sam Tomkins has not matched Danny McGuire's achievements in the game, nor is he likely to.

It is not relevant at all to the question of who is the better player.

If you were correct then it would mean that Shaun Edwards was a far better player than Ellery Hanley.

He will - easily, if he gets the time.

At least, that's what my crystal ball says.

Is mine more accurate than yours?

As already pointed out, team trophies mean little towards personal stats. Good players win nothing in a poor team, and poor players can pick up medals in a good one.

More relevant is that McGuire had ZERO international selections when he was Sam's age, and only got 19 in total. Sam has 8 already.

In which position do you see him getting his 9th Geoff?

danny is about 28 if i'm right and facing more of a fight these days for any furthe rinternational recognition. sam is what, 21 /22?

the rate sam is going, he will probably earn more achievements whether with wigan, whoever else and internationally than half the leeds team put together, in his playing career.

The more astute point out it's two games less. His 1 game ban and the game behind we are already.

the thing with sam is that he does annoy people but he has to stick up for himself when u get the dirty players such as from leeds (bailey, ablett and cross) targettting him all the time and then wen he goes to take the kick ur all chanting sam tomkins is a w***er obviously hes gonna get annoyed and angry wat do u expect

Don't worry about it. They just wish he played for them.

In your own post you say way it is irrelevant. You do this by using the word "achievements" An achievement is irrelevant. Briers is easily as good a player as Long is or ever was but because he plays for Wire not Saints he hasnt achieved as much. Riddell is easily better than Cunningham but due to the teams hes played for he hasn't achieved as much medal count wise as Cunningham has.

Are you understanding the point yet? Hows this one? Do you SERIOUSLY believe that Mathers is better than Hodgson just because Mathers has 2 cup winners medals and Hodgson has no medals (other than a Grand Final losers medal from the NRL).

You see the flaws in the achievement vs ability argument yet or do you need even more?