The point you make re Wane could be valid, I admit. However, my biggest prop concern ATM is Feca. Why so little game time at HJ? Could it be MM isn't satisfied?

Even with his improved fitness the game on Saturday just looked too fast for him imo.

I get the feeling Maguire was nervous of using him in that 2nd half especially as we got oursleves back in the game. We never had field position on a consistant enough basis to bring him back on and won the game from our own half in a way with a couple of magical scores.

If we go back to the Hull KR game Feka made 31 tackles and around 10 marker tackles which for him was fantastic but when we were pinned on our own line in a 15minute spell before halftime Feka looked happy to take a back seat and let the wings/centres run the ball out. I'd have liked to have seen him put his hand up and take the responsibility of getting us out of our own half but in his spell of about 12-15 minutes he took in 1 drive.

I get the feeling Feka himself is concentrating too much on defence and possibly even getting involved in tackles he doesn't really need to just to show everyone he's not a defensive weak link anymore.

FWIW I hope no-one misinterprets this thread as a jibe at Paul Prescott or 'another player to pick on' type of thing. Merely an observation. I thought he was struggling against Warrington and could perhaps benefit with a week in the reserves. It sounds harsh, but he is still a very young prop forward who has a long way to go before he reaches his peak. James Graham and Sam Burgess are just freaks. I think Prescott could benefit and so could the team. Introducing a fresh prop forward who you can be assured will be looking to impress could be very beneficial to the team after such a short turnaround from a hard fought Wire game.

If people can point out statistics from the match that proves perhaps Prescott was not struggling then fine. But (although I started a thread on forwards statistics) stats are not the be all and end all. I openly accept that. Just Prescott's loose carries, long term, give me great concern. He is pretty well disciplined, but in terms of ball retention he is pretty poor and usually comes up with an error or two each game. I know people can point to other players like Deacon and Roberts, but these are our creative players. They come up with plays that sometimes don't come off. Solomona will probably make the most errors this season, but will be up there in terms of try assists. It's a common correlation between the most creative players and the number of errors made. But as a forward they just take the ball straight up the middle and make the 'hard yards'. The 'dirty work' and a loose carry on strong collision in the middle of the pack will lead to unnecessary and 'soft' errors, which good opponents will capitalise on.

Eamon O'carroll may not be the biggest, but he is stocky and is just as difficult to put down. He has never let us down IMO in a competitive Super League match. He was our best forward at the beginning of 2009 and was the only positive to take out of a dire performance in the opening match against Wakefield. He even earnt himself a first team spot and Andy Coley was forced to face a week in the reserves. I'm not sure why people are putting the mockers on the lad. He can certainly do a job for us this week against Les Catalans. It's at least brought up an interesting debate if nothing else.

my only concern with ocarrol is that he does not seem to cause the defence many problems. He hits the line hard there is no mistaking that. He very rarely breaks the line and does not make yards in th tackle. Coley can do ten yards with blokes hanging off him at times. This ocarroll never seems to do. I just dont think he is going to make it at wigan. sorry just my opinion hope i am wrong

End of the day we need competition for places, if Riddell was playing average and McIllorum was waiting in the wings I would drop Riddell for McIllorum so that Riddell wouldn't get complacent in the side.

You need to set the benchmark for standards and if any player doesn't play to their best standard then drop them for someone who will.

Players like O'Loughlin, Richards, Gleeson can have off games and not be dropped because everyone knows their class and try hard but like last week I said drop Prescott for O'Carroll just to show we can't take passengers even though Prescott didn't play poorly he didn't exactly rip it up, needs to run in faster IMO to cause any damage, I also think he is a good work horse prop just would like to see a bit more aggression and speed to his game, if he did he would be fantastic.

Prescott will be the better of the props long term imo, but I would like to see O'Carroll get a run this week, just to see what he can offer/what he has gained from the new setup.

Although it would be more likely Bailey & Mossop on the bench, Mossop @ Prop with no Prescott.

OC is too small.

He would have got absolutely battered on Saturday.

Shame, but he simply is not big enough to be a "front line" front rower.

Great attitude though.

It's not the size of the dog in the fight it's the size of the fight in the dog, look at Karl Pryce for instance.

It's not as if he is Rob Burrow playing prop.

People are going on about risk to Morale far too much this year but it has to be remembered that for every player whose morale is potentially damaged by being dropped/rested or rotated there is another player whose morale is improved by being given a chance to play in the first team. Why do people think that because Prescott is in the first team now his Morale is worth more than Eamons and don't people think that MM is capable of explaining to players the reasons behind their omission from the team without making them feel downhearted?

In order for Morale to be good across the board fringe players need to know that they are able to earn a place by their efforts in training, if not then we're back to the situation we have seen in the past few seasons where certain players feel like they are flogging a dead horse. Small but regular squad rotation is massively important unless we want to end up with a situation where we get a few injuries at a crucial time of the season and end up with players in potentially key positions who are not used to the demands of Super League.

Having the odd match on the side lines does not need to be seen as a punishment but an opportunity, its simple psychology

Well said Sir.

The last time someone tried to batter him, they got owned (Morley).

Exactly. I don't quite buy into the theory that he is too 'small' because his performances in Super League matches suggest otherwise.

Fans have short memories. His form last year was superb.

Just look at the comments people were making when he got injured:

[urlhttp://viewtopic.php?f=28&t=401072[/url

a good big un will always beat a good little un ....... or is that in boxing

Exactly

For me Prescott is a steady away prop that you don't really notice if he's on or not but the way Eamonn was developing he had a real presence on the pitch. I trust Madge's judgment but thats not to say I understand why Eamonn seems to be playing second fiddle to Prescott.

Can't argue with any of that IMO.

Why?

When has he ever struggled in a competitive Super League match? He was our best prop forward in 2009 before he got injured. He held his own for Ireland in the World Cup against some of the world's best. He is stocky and is more than capable of roughing it up with the big boys, as proven when Morley came off second best trying to flatten him. Not many players have done that.

Danny Nutley was a similar frame and he was the best prop forward in Super League in his short time with Castleford. Barry McDermott was another that was never the biggest, but had a successful career.

No-one so far has backed up why he is 'too small' to play Super League. (Not having a pop at you here BTW).

The game has changed since Nutley played, look at all the top sides props now, Peacock, Morley, Graham, Sam Burgess, all 6 foot plus and 16/17 stone, he just doesn't have the frame or power to compete with these, I'm not doubting his 'heart', but you need more than that at the top level now, if we are serious in mounting a challenge for honours O'C is not (IMO) the answer.I wish the lad well, and if selected he will get my full support

Sorry but this sounds like you're judging him on his size more than what you've actually seen of him on the pitch. Have a look on Wiki and I think it pretty much sums him up. He is a really hard worker and doesn't get bullied by anyone and unless I'm mistaken there's only one Peacock at Leeds, one Graham at Saints etc, they have other props you know. Eamon has blown the issue with size theory out of the water so many times.

Saying O'Carroll is too small is just stupid. Just look at the games when he has played!

Fair enough.

But I think he should get a chance before we put the mockers on him. So far he hasn't struggled in Super League when given a chance. I'm sounding like a broken record, but he was our best prop forward before he got injured in 2009. His frame gives him an advantage over opponents because he is stocky and difficult to grab onto. I'm not convinced he is 'as small' as he is made out to be. It would be nice if the new Wigan website updates the height and weight of our players.

The only problem O'Carroll had was not making enough metres. He was often quite a way behind the other props, even in the few games where he did well at the start of last season he was behind most of the back row in terms of the metres he was making.
In the current side our back row is working much harder and lifting some of the pressure on the props and that's on top of Coley, Fielden and Prescott improving their workload from last season.

There's nothing that says O'Carroll won't also improve this year, and he did make a good go of it in the friendly at Wakefield. He struggled the following week against Wire, but all of our forwards found the going much tougher at the weekend so maybe that's not too surprising. Against Catalan it is probably a good game for him to be included and then people can take into account that games performance before writing him off completely.

O'Carroll has been the outstanding prop in the two reserve friendlies, easily outplaying the highly rated Mike cooper of Warrington.

I can well believe that RG.

I also think he is a useful back up option for us. He will do a job, won't let the team down. He is still too small to be a front line prop forward in 2010 RL.

I've never seen O'Carroll have an off game for us, he always trys his hardest and busts tackles, nothing i've seen from him tells me that he can't make it in Super League. Give him a go!

Not for me he wasn't?
Maybe In Your Opinion?

My opinion
Doesn't take enough out of the other team when taking it in, doesn't hurt them enough tackling to be a Front Line Prop.

If MM wants to "rest" someone and feels he can bring O'C in etc which will provide benefits further on down the line then Fair enough, go for it.
If MM wants to play his best team I would have a small wager on him picking Prescott over O'C.

As for Prescott's "Loose Carries", I make it 1 per game, not outstanding I admit, but likewise not awful as some would have us believe (Bear in mind 1 of those was quite clearly a Ball steal vs HKR).

As Twosevezero said earlier, If O'C gets picked fair enough, I'll get behind the lad.
Who would I play if there was a "BIG" game this weekend, one we HAD to win?

Prescott, Every day of the week.

Nobody as far as I can see is putting the mockers on him, most people who are picking Prescott over O'C are saying it because they think Prescott is the Better Prop, not that O'C is Rubbish.
I believe O'C will play quite a bit of SL However at the Top Level I think he will struggle to hold down a Regular Front Line Position.
He could however easily play Many Years as a 1st team regular but IMHO teams that want and are challenging for Honours won't be knocking our door down for him?

PS
Having stood next to him, and looked down on him, I can tell you he is the Height people are suggesting!