To be honest mate that happens at every club.

We let Briers leave in 97 when Goulding was the best 7 in the comp. Look at the career that Briers went on to have. Similarly at a lower level the likes of Matty Ashurst has had a great career at Wakefield. He was a St Helens lad in our Academy.

You can't keep everyone.

The Wardle deal was wrapped up months ago. They already had Halsall signed up long before we signed up King.

I think the fall out between Wire and Hudds a few months ago with both coaches having a public pop at each other’s clubs ensured Wardle would not be joining Hudds.

Ben Currie never played for Wigan academy, Olly Russell along with Josh Wood were the slowest halfbacks I've ever seen at academy level at Wigan. He is twenty four and has only managed thirty games at 1st team level since 2018.

Matty Lees never played for Wigan but they and particularly Matty Peet rate(d) him highly. McDonnell and Halsall were very good at academy level (stand out I'm not sure). I would have taken Josh Simm from Saints before him
Bibby was behind Hill and Wood IMO at that level.
NIcholson is a big loss IMO, but if you look at it from his perspective he had Farrell, Bateman, Smithies and Isa in front of him with Nsemba pushing through.

Are you moving the goal posts here?

The conversation is around letting young / academy players go but most of the list above were not in this category when they left?

One of them isn't even English

I struggle to believe any Wigan fan is pining over Jack Hughes and Gil Dudson.

It is stretching the boundaries somewhat

This season? Definitely not, but Dudson has actually been quite good over the last 3 or 4 years. Played a part in both Salford and Cats getting to the GF. All at the same time we had to endure a power puff pack that he'd have strolled into.

Over the years yes we have let some players go who the fans wanted to play first team, I remember a lot of fans wanting Nicky Stanton to play because he was knocking over goals left right and centre but he was about 5ft tall and 3 stone wet through.

I really believe James McDonnell will be a Mick Cassidy type player and could have replaced Isa, Nicolson could have been a Gilmour style of back rower, Halsall was a bit laid back and relaxed but had bags of pace and oozed class as a centre, the best centre I've ever seen us produce IMO.

But yeah, like posters have said, they'd all just be another Mark Cannon, or Shaun Ainscough or Ryan Hampshire.

To be honest Rogues you've long been a champion of the reserves/academy lads I'm suprised you've not backed me up on this.

Why do you care? Last time we heard from you, you had stopped following rugby league because of anti racism yet here you are?

Stop trying to derail the thread.

Firstly there are a lot of could be’s in that paragraph.

James McDonnall “could be the next Mick Cassidy”.

Do we need another Mick Cassidy? No disrespect to Mick he was a great player of his time but I’d say the secondrow position had evolved now. Mick was an absolute grafter and he put his head where others sometimes wouldn’t and was all about work ethic. We have that in spades with Faz and Bateman however they offer more threat with the ball.

Isa offers a similar role to the one Mick played as does Smithies although even at his young age probably brings a bit more go forward to the table.


Nicholson wanted to go, he had been offered first team rugby and a big wage increase. Should we fast track someone into the team over 3 international secondrows to please him? In my opinion no.

Halsall has literally done nothing in the first team to show that he deserved a regular start at centre.

The crux of your point seems to be based around King coming in for Halsall, but that isn’t the case. Wardle a 23 year old international centre has come in for Halsall a reserve player who has been given a few chances at first team level and has yet to take them.

You seem to be an advocate of youth….but then you have a “wish list” in your signature including 2 halves…meaning no place for Smith.

Jack Hughes meaning less of an opportunity for either McDonnald or Nicholson.

Josh Charnley who cannot get a game at Leigh.

Tommy Talau and Smith Shields both centre or winger meaning no place for Halsall.

Josh Schuster…another secondrow….so no room for McDonnald or Nicholson.

You talk as if Halsall is the second coming but he is 21 not established in the first team. Gildart was playing for England and GB at 22!

Halsall looks a good prospect. He is clearly playing at a level above the championship but he hasn’t stood out as anything other than solid in the first team.

He’s joining a club with 4 centres ahead of him.

We could chuck Nicholson, McDonald and Halsall in next year and finish in the top 6 is that good enough? Would certainly see Matty Peet lose his job.

The fact is King may have had a couple of low key years but he has performed at a level significantly higher than Halsall has and as we have seen Peet has an ability to bring the best out of players.

Wardle a 23 year old international established centre is the replacement for Halsall.

I'd have replaced Isa and Partington with McDonnell, Nicolson and Nsemba.

McDonnell is a grafter, a tough one at that and offers more go forward than Isa, Partington and Smithies. As do Nicolson and Nsemba, all 3 are strong running classic second rowers.

Don't look too far into the wishlist, it was done about 18months to 2 years ago.

If King was to replace Thornley then fair enough, Thornley is getting on and is injury prone, if Thornley left and King came in on a 1 year deal in order to help Halsall and maybe even Sumner transition then fair enough but I am genuinely gutted Halsall has gone. There are posters on here agreeing with the club who have probably only seen Halsall play 3 times for the first team and are judging him on that alone. Bookmark this thread and see where Nicolson, McDonnell and Halsall are in 3 years and I'll say England Knights.

Same goes for Tom Forber, Jr Nsemba and Reagan Sumner.

There you are again.

You seem unable to acknowledge King and Halsall are totally unrelated moves.

Wardle is the replacement for Halsall.

King and Halsall have nothing to do with each other in regards business between the 2 clubs.

In simple terms would you prefer to go into 2023 with a centre partnership of -

King right centre / Halsall left.

King right centre/ Wardle left.

I don’t see any way the former is better than the latter.

We’ve got 3 experienced centres for 2023, so that’ll do me. I’d have liked to have kept Halsall as well but it’s not always possible. Everything is a balancing act and trying to get that balance right is a challenge.

I look at the club Halsall has gone to and I’m not sure they’ve got their balance right. They have incredible depth but depth wasn’t an issue last season, I’d say they were just short of one, maybe two real star players to put a huge challenge down on Saints. They now lose Leutele and Levi and they’ve brought in a raft of players but none of them really make you go ‘wow’ and make you think the first 17 quality will be better than last season. It’s the long game they’re playing I suppose, buying young players to keep improving over the next 3 or 4 years and they’ll at least know in every game next season, they’ll be able to put out a really strong 17.

I get what you're saying, but when we traded £100k and Sean Long for Lee Hansen, didn't mean Lee Hansen was going to play scrum half did it?

Hudds wanted King, they also wanted Wardle, don't be naive to think we couldn't have had Wardle and Halsall.

Would you rather have:

Wardle and Thornley/Halsall or

Wardle and King/Halsall?

I think you are being naive.

The Wardle deal was agreed months ago in early June with negotiations starting in May.

The Halsall/Bibby deal was part of that and agreed at the time.

The King deal is a separate deal made much much later with Warrington.

We cannot have Wardle and Halsall!!!

For us to get Wardle we needed to give them Halsall.

I’m really struggling to understand how you don’t get that.

Next year we have

Wardle, King and Thornley which is better than either of the 2 combinations you suggest.

Ok, I'll accept that.

Just for arguements sake, would you rather have :

Wardle and King/Halsall back up or
Wardle and Thornley/Halsall back up?

Wardle and King with Halsall backup…but as I’ve said I’m more happy with Wardle, King and Thornley backup.

2022 we got some long overdue props.
2023 we got some long overdue centres.

We do look strong, Wardle and King bot solid centres that make us stronger, I'd have rather kept the young lads and lost some of the first team. I'd have lost Thornley for Halsall, Isa for McDonnell and Partington for Nicolson all day long and we'd have still signed King and Wardle.

Again though, we can’t simply get rid of players under contract.

Giants wanted Halsall not Thornley who is under contract for next year.

Isa is under contract for next year.

Nicholson wanted to go and even if we did replace Isa for him (under contract) he still isn’t in the 17 which Wire have pretty much promised him he will be and bumped his cash up.

And yet you still moan