When I say there was a power vacuum at the top after the demise of Widnes which allowed Wigan to clean up after the early 1990s, Im not saying that to try and lessen Wigan's achievements, I mean in terms of comparing the Wigan teams of 92-95 with the teams of the late 1980s, I think that has to be taken into account. Like you say Leeds signed more 'big names' than Wigan did however I think the Leeds team under Dougie Laughton was like Warrington under Cullen, they would sign more internationals every year but the mix somehow wasn't right. It was an assortment of big names where Wigan like you say, were a real team unit. It was as well that Hanley joined Leeds because that at least gave the rest a bit of hope, without him Leeds would have been a real flop in that era. If Wigan had Hanley from 91-95 it would have been clean sweep unbeaten seasons.

I thought the leadership of Dean Bell and Edwards was fantastic in terms of getting a team unit together, there was no way a big name could come in and rock the boat or act up at Wigan, they would have got put in their place instantly. I still think Bell is one of the best role models in RL, pretty quiet unassuming guy but up with Hanley for toughness and he was a superb ambassador for the Wigan ethic at that time.

I think the Wigan team today has got a good team ethic to it, there are no real big names, the better performers are similar types of characters, low key low profile, so I think Wigan have got back up there again in that respect, the difference between now and that team of the late 80s, early 90s is there aren't the world beaters.

Here's a follow up question for Wigan fans as well,
who out of the current team do you think would have been a regular in the late 80s-early 90s era
and also, who out of Wigan's less successful era (2003-09) do you think would have been a regular then (other than Radlinski and Farrell who were anyway). I can think of say Lam, O'Connor, maybe Craig Smith.

Out of the current team Lockers would have been in there, I think he is a better player than Clarke was to be honest but late 80's early 90's with a back row of Betts, Goodway and Hanley he may of ended up on the bench. As soon as I saw the question I obviously thought Sam but when you think about it it's not that easy (apart from the Atcheson era of course).
The 2003 - 09 years I'm sure Newton would of been there, arguably a better player than Hall and Dermott.

It depends on which rules you play under. With the old 5 metre rule, todays scooter hookers would be mullered. Only the likes of Monaghan, Cameron Smith etc would get a game at hooker. Roby would be a loose forward.
Dermott was in a class of his own from a distribution pov. If you read John Monies book "The Ice Man" he says that a lot of Wigan success came from fast accurate passing from dummy half. That allowed the decision makers (Edwards, Gregory etc) to play.

I think Clarke was awesome.

Agreed. The best British defensive forward I've ever seen. Betts, Clarke and Hanley was the best back 3 line up ever in British RL.

When Hanley left and Clarke took his loose foward role the pressure would have destroyed lesser players. I have a great deal of respect for Lockers, he's massively underrated (disgracefully so for many years by many Wiganers, though that has changed and he has growing respect now from all RL fans) and is one of the few genuinely world class players in the British game these days, but Clarke was a better player. There were games when he seemed to be everywhere in defence - he won matches by almost single-handedly (it seemed!) tackling the opposition to a standstill rather than by scoring brilliant tries like Hanley. He wasn't as good as Hanley but then no British player from the modern era was (or is), but Clarke was a very, very good player indeed. If he were playing today he'd be the best forward in SL.

Spot on about Dermott. His distribution was the best I've ever seen and he couldn't half tackle. The only thing is though, Monie had a bit of a downer on him. He wanted Bobby Goulding to develop as Wigans hooker as he didn't think Dermott was up to it. Derms proved him wrong though.

So true. Jonathan Davies was a particular favourite of mine (unless he was playing Wigan!). What a player he was, so naturally gifted, it was like he was born to play rugby. For me he came closest to Hanley in terms of sheer skill and rugby genius in that era. Like Hanley, like all great players of team sports, Davies just seemed to have more time than everyone else and could do things that other players couldn't.

I'd have loved to have seen him in the Cherry and White, but then despite the ridiculous myths, Wigan didn't buy up all the great players...

i remember being locked out of a mid week cup replay v Leeds @ 1964/5 ish.
iirc it was an afternoon kick off on a wednesday......all the town and his dog wanted to attend....my school closed early and i went........it was a lock out.

but hundreds, if not thousands, broke down a fence near the duggy behind the Kop, and hundreds more climbed over the school wall on Wigan lane.......i got in through the broken down fence.
Crowd was officially @ 42,000......but imo it was a ground record...50,000+

We won..just......and Eric Ashton and Lewis Jones got sent off for fighting.........Happy days

*edit*
was actually 1961.....we won easily...32-7
just looked at the team sheet on Cherry and white........so question

who were the left side bacl line pairing.......(without looking it up?)
clue...winger was an Incer.....grave digger
centre was playing out of position......

That's how you tell the really great players. They almost seem to play in slow motion. They seem to have all the time in the World. I've seen the odd one in footie too, from the past.

I don't agree that Clarke was a better player than Lockers. I agree that he was a very good player, but he played in arguably the best team this country has ever seen. I'm sure if their roles were reversed Lockers would be considered a greater player. You have just got to look at Nathan Browns comments comparing him to Wayne Pearce.

But Clarke was a part of that team, also Brown is hardly the oracle is he...

Tuigamala was fantastic, an absolute beast, and that's coming from, a Wire fan!!.....He was superb to watch, one of those monsters that every All Blacks side seems to have in their three quarter line.

Just as an aside, talking of great, hard running All Black wingers, how would Tuigamala's successor in the New Zealand RU side, Jonah Lomu, have done in our code?.....Would loved to have seen a fully fit Lomu have a season or two in our league....Scott Gibbs was pretty impressive at Saints, but Lomu was twice the player.

Just how fearsome would he have been playing centre in Rugby League?

Thats like Graham Appo when he played fullback for us, if the opposition put in a kick behind him he went after it like he had all day to pick it up.

Wigan tried very hard to get Lomu. He had played Rugby League as a youngster He had played in a RU tournament when he was about 18 or 19 and Wigan spotted him (he was hard to miss) as he scored a bucketfull of tries. Sadly the signing never happened.

It was bloody 'orrible quality that video.

I have such fond memories of it though. My first season. Arguably that team (staff included) started the glory days, and regardless of where it peaked, it began there. On a side note, one of my favourite players from that squad: Ray Mordt. The guy could bump-off 5 players in the corner with an inch to spare and still score.

eta: if you search you-know-where for "Wigan Rugby Club, best in all the land" you can watch the intro to that video.

Surely Micky Higham would have got a game Rogues??

My dad has always told me about the glory years and how I wish I could have been a fan back then.. but only being born in 1990 kinda hindered that.. so the season were I have seen Wigans biggest peak as such for me was last season.

I completly agree that for people who have witnessed the 8 in a row (and can rememeber them) and all the league wins, thats when you will think but for me, last season everything fell in to place perfectly and I never doubted the fact we would win the Super League.

Agreed about Clarke - Lockers would have been outstanding in that team as well. Strange how similar Clarke and Mike Gregory were - two outstanding players.But for me the back three of Hanley Betts and Goodway shaded it over the three you list (just I admit).

Not only that, in the GB setup, Mal Reilly seemed to prefer Lee Jackson ahead of Dermott. Never did understand why, given that Reilly was one the best coaches the game has ever seen.

From a different era, but Ashurst, Robinson and Laughton would give any back three a run for their money.

Definitely agree with everything you've said there. I remember Davies being laughed at when he made the switch, with people saying he was too small, slow, weedy, not good enough to make it. Credit to the man, he worked hard at Widnes to gain all the attributes needed, and he became a great RL player.

He also went to Widnes around the time when they were seemingly buying up half of Welsh RU. Not surprising really, given that Jim Mills was their chairman. In terms of spending a fortune on big (untried) names, Widnes were as bad as anyone.

Some interesting players names have cropped up in this thread including Brian Case, Hampson, Dermott and Robbie McCormack.

All four were IMO class acts and a big reason why the teams they played in were successful because they made big contributions to those sides. I don't think Case was the best prop we have ever had but he is certainly up there and I always think of him as one of if not [ithe[/i toughest prop I have ever seen at Wigan.

I certainly appreciate the comment from Monie about Hampson of "If he's fit he plays". He is best full back bar none I have seen play for Wigan.

The two hookers were better than anything that came after including Newton IMO. Dermott is the best of the lot but McCormack was the type of player Newton should have been in that he was as hard as nails but didn't have the rushes of blood to the head that ended up with him getting sent off.

Dave

A player who always gets overlooked because of his few appearances, but, was outstanding in those few, is Phil Blake, 1989-90 season, 11 apps, 7 tries, 17 goals and outstanding in each game, a quality player who was replaced by Frano Botica, talk about an embarrassment of riches !!!!

86-87 season does it for me, Wigan won 7 out of 8 trophies, including the world club and thats at a time when there wasn't much difference in the teams. Widnes won the league 2 years consecutive after that, which prooves that the competition was "closer".
Whereas in the 90s, Wigan had a clear advantange in the number of "professionals" in comparison with other teams. So depending on how you judge the game, you can settle for the 86-87 side or the "globe trotting all stars" of the 90s

If I could pick any of those today I would have Bill Ashurst.

He would have kicked a '40 - 20' after every 4th or 5th tackle.

All games won !