This post is spot on.

Having said that I hope we can turn it around whether that's under Lam or not.

Rugby by numbers as in 6 trophies since his appointment, several more final appearances and an excellent win percentage?

I can think of many games when Wigan played excellent rugby under Wane too.

But hey we score tries direct from scrums now so it's reet!

That performance yesterday was one of the worst in attack and defence I’ve seen from a Wigan team in a long time. There just wasn’t any heart or desire to win from any player.

Constant indiscipline, unforgivable mistakes such as playing the ball to no one and a pass from the scrum straight back to a Saints attacker. I was watching in sheer embarassment at that pathetic showing.

Lam may want to get some tackle shields out and show the players what a tackle is. They fell off Johnny Lomax and Regan Grace with pathetic ease.

I don’t really know what Lam has brought to the team to be honest. The rugby isn’t really that good and we have somehow gone from fearless defenders to powder puff tacklers. He has been dealt a crappy hand but I do expect a lot better than this.

The low crowds and crap team is a direct result of Wane, similar to when Alex Ferguson left David Moyes with a team he’d won the league with the year before. Moyes was left with a substandard team as is Lam.

You’re clearly another Wane roundhead who would have him back tomorrow playing his Grey Soviet dull Lada rugby. The funny thing is, apart from the Saints 75-0 and the Leeds 70-0 the worst defeats we’d ever had were with Wane in charge. He never knew how to win a game but knew how not to lose one, by playing negative boring wrestling rugby which worked yes but it’s turned a lot of fans away. How many Wane games were 0-0 at half time? You remember the Widnes 7-0 game? How many tines were we billed under Wane?

I’ve seen enough of Lam to know that our attack is getting better but we need help or need to work on defence that’s for sure, it will be pretty hard for Lam to do anything considering our injury crisis as his methods weren’t going to happen over night. If we had a regular 6 and 7, a proper 9 and Hardaker playing together behind a pack of forwards who run hard and offload then we would be in the top 3.

Just looking, in 2011 in his first season we had an average of 16,000 plus, over 5 years it went down to the figure of last season as 11,000 plus. So 5000 fewer fans per game, how much revenue is that? And that’s a team that’s winning trophies, that’s fans who have voted with the their feet.

It'll be interesting to see what the average is this season, with this exciting, score from the scrum base rugby won't it? Because I guarantee it'll be less than last season.

The average will likely increase purely off the back of yesterday's crowd.

During Wanes tenure they took the fans for granted serving up dire rugby because it didn’t matter in the grand scheme of things, theyd finish somewhere thereabouts and win the trophy. But the fans saw through this, being taken for granted along with all the league games and this is a massive reason in why people voted with their feet.

Whether or not I have faith in Lam to carry us forward I think the standard of rugby on show has been miles better, albeit it was good under Wane in his first season, may have been down to Harris.

I recognise that Wane wasn't perfect and of course he had his faults. I'm not a fan of those close to record defeats either as I'm sure no fan at the club is.

Having said that my point was more aimed at the fact that I'm sick to death of reading about the alleged poor rugby from Wane's Wigan. Yes there were many games were we simply ground out results but there were also many entertaining matches when Wigan produced some top quality RL. I'm not sure if people don't recognise those performances or won't recognise those performances because they did happen under Wane. You speak of the 7-0 win but how about when we pumped Wire at Magic Weekend last year? Battered Saints on Good Friday in 2014? Runs up to and including the play-offs for several seasons? Pretty much the first 10-12 games of last season?

The crowds you point out are an alarming statistic and it's a stat none of us can be happy with and whilst I believe there are many social and economic factors impacting on our attendances there's no question people have voted with their feet. I find the voting with their feet notion almost staggering given the levels of success we've enjoyed. I'd say this is symptomatic of fans thinking they know better than the coaches and just generally never being satisfied - win, lose or draw. There's many of those same people who are critical of Lenagan but I can't say I blame him for cutting back a bit given literally thousands of the so-called loyal fan base have decided they know best and have hit the club in the pocket.

I hope Lam can turn this around and yes we'd all like results AND to be entertained but if it's a choice between the two given limitations in the squad I'd always choose results. It's a results based business. It'd be great to consistently have some razzle-dazzle on show but then again in any way shape or form I personally find winning usurps being entertained.

Lam hasn't been here that long in the grand scheme of things but alarmingly every player since his arrival seems to have gone backwards.

Let's hope Lam and the boys can it around and we can stop debating this and move forward collectively in a positive manner but at the current rate (you spoke about rugby by numbers) the numbers don't lie and they currently spell disaster for Lam.

2011 wasn't his first season, 2012 was, and that season was fantastic rugby but crowds went down.

In my opinion we need someone more experienced to take on the role of coaching us, someone who can get results but doesn’t play dreadful to watch rugby.

You say only 11 games in, but that plus a pre-season is a substantial amount of time for a team to embed under a new coach.
Honestly mate I don't know what you're seeing. Take the Saints game for example, halves were still split, movement was generally poor and the team looked pretty clueless in attack.

I pray Lam can turn this around, but currently we sit joint rock bottom. I know we're suffering injuries, but so did teams under Wane etc, and I don't think we've ever looked consistently this bad in attack and defence.

I'm not saying Lam can't turn it around, I'd love nothing more to see him take us to Old Trafford, but currently we look really really way off, in all departments.

I think even the best coach in the world would struggle with our team at present, we are losing players during games almost every game.

If we are to stave off relegation, we need a couple more players to bolster the squad. Like a Quentin Pongia style signing, or a Nick Graham style signing. An experienced Aussie/Kiwi who will do a job until the end of the season in the forwards.

why would someone who has resigned want to come back? I walked away from a job of 15 years and I would never go back there, unless of course I was offered £1million but even then I would hand my notice in after a week.

.. but only when we'd thrown SW's plan out of the window usually.

I think it’s unfair to judge us on the Saints game. They’re clearly the benchmark in the league and took Warrington apart the week before.
I don’t think the coaching let us down as much as lack of quality players. We created opportunities but didn’t take them. The glaring example was when Isa bombed the overlap we created on the right, something he did several times at Castleford too!
Go back a few weeks and we were brilliant in attack and nilled Catalans. We showed glimpses of class against Salford, we were excellent for an hour against Roosters.
I accept we’re nowhere near where we need to be but I don’t put that down to the coaching. I put it down to too many players in the side who are simply not good enough. That coupled with the number of young players being thrown in with little experience around them, being played through necessity rather than choice.
I’ve said all along that I’d like Lam to stay on but I’ve always qualified it by saying with a few players being brought in who he trusts to deliver his style of play. To put our current situation down to him alone is just wrong in my view. He’s trying to coach with his hands tied behind his back.

+1

Welcome to Wanes world..... see what I did there?

Excellent

In Isas defence, Hankinson was far too deep when attacking the Saints line, if he’d have been in the right position he may have caught it. Unfortunately Hankinson had read the ‘1983 Rothmans Woodbines guide to Wing Play’ prior to kick off and was too deep.

And this further illustrates my point about our current situation not being down to coaching. Hankinson is a centre, Isa is a 2nd row. Both out of position and bombed an excellent chance that was created. Had the chance been on the other side I’d argue the ball wouldn't have ended up in touch and we’d likely have scored but we’ll never know.

It's not just the Saints game though is it really. So far this season we've literally had one 80min performance all season. The all other games there's been major issues, hence our league position. In spells we've looked promising, but to go from defending champs on an unbeaten run to rock bottom?
I've not seem great attacking flair or anything particularly different from last season, I have however seen us look clueless in pretty much every game for spells and develop paper light defence, which is most alarming considering we were known for strong D under Wane.

I'm not writing Lam off. You make some valid points regarding missing players etc. I hope he can turn it round. But in. all honesty I can't say I've seen enough to want the club to keep Lam on. Not yet at least.

I think that's fair. We were starting to see the beginning of a proper partnership between Sammut and Williams, but that has been put on hold now like so many others things, The weak D remains a real concern, though; it looks a greater malaise than can be explained just by missing players.

I loved Lam as a player, but as a coach I suspect he's bitten off a lot more than he can chew. He may well have come to Wigan thinking he could do 'a Michael Maguire' and make his reputation by turning a team of underachievers into champions in the space of one season.

But as I see it, there are two main problems with that.

1. Michael Maguire clearly inherited a bunch of players who were much better than anyone realised - it was just that Brian Noble wasn't much of a coach. In comparison, Lam's team is woefully short on quality. It's suffered more injuries too, but it contains far too many old soldiers.

2. More importantly, Adrian Lam is clearly not Michael Maguire. Instead of working on the areas where we were weak, he tried to affect a massive change in the team's playing style overnight, and it's just not worked. Yes, we regularly throw the ball wide to the cavalry (and sometimes we score glorious tries from that), but he appears to have almost completely neglected our infanty. Teams now go through our middle as if it's not even there. There's no rocket-science required to understand Wigan's defeats. It's all in the defence, or lack of it. It's also the case that Lammy himself looks nervous and shaky before games, whereas Maguire was ice-cool. That is bound to infect the players, and it's only going to get worse as the losses build up.

I wouldn't deny that we've had a bad run of injuries, but we shouldn't let that disguise the real problem, which is - and I hate saying this - that Adrian Lam is out of his depth. A couple of weeks ago, I suggested that, once we had the Shaun Edwards monkey off our back (he also carries a lot of the blame!), we should offer Lam the job long-term on the condition that he turns it around by mid-season. Well now I'm not sure we can afford to wait that long. In constantly finding reasons why it's not Lammy's fault, I fear that we are wasting valuable time. The relegation clock is ticking.

If we lose at home to London a week Thursday it's time to panic, until then, deep breaths everyone.

I feel a bit sorry for Lam, a mixture of recent injuries and years of poor recruitment have made it difficult for him to find his feet at Wigan. Given both of those things, it's almost impossible for him to do what he was recruited to do - to change us into a team who play an attacking/entertaining style of rugby that will stop attendances falling year after year.

Having said that, the second point above about our defence puts a big question mark over his coaching abilities. These lads could tackle last year especially in the middle of the park and that seems to have gone. Bilko posted some scary stats on twitter about metres gained down the middle by our opposition over the last three games. If Lam can't fix that, we're always going to be under the cosh for the field position, and even if we've built up a decent lead, as we did against Cas, other teams know we've got a soft underbelly and they can rack up points if they get a roll on.