The theory is good, we all need to know how the younger players will be able to perform in SL, it's just in this case the practice didn't work out after 80 minutes....who honestly thought that would be the case with 20 minutes to go, and a 3 score lead?

I've always been of the viewpoint that you try to finish as high in the table as possible, thereby, in theory again, making it less stressful to win through to the GF. Although Leeds bucked that theory last season, how many honestly think that will become a regular happening?

We always fell short under Brian Noble because we were having to do it the hard way every time.

The only reason this debate about disrespect has come up is because Wigan lost.

Raper did this against Saints picking four 17 year olds in an Easter derby but nobody said that was disrespecting the game because Wigan won, it was hailed as a great sign for Wigan's youth system.

I also seem to remember in our worst season of 2002 when David Plange had just taken over a coach we went to Wigan and got smashed by 50 points against a Wigan team with about 9 first teamers out because Wigan had the Challenge Cup the next week...nobody said that was disrespect either!

Correct, had we of won yesterday there would of been no talk about taking Widnes lightly or disrespecting them as some are suggesting.

I wasn't able to attend the game yesterday but was receiving updates whilst at work. To be quite honest although disappointed with the loss, receiving messages that the younger players had actually played pretty well seems as though Wane did the right thing, it shouldn't really be taken away from the defeat because of the players that was missing. Maybe Widnes should be getting some credit as well for their part in coming from behind twice?

Not quite correct Raper had no choice with the side he had major injuries whilst SW had a choice.

Correct. Our first team backs were decimated that day.

Radlinski, Carney, Dallas all missing through injury.

Not the same whatsoever.

Because finishing top no longer matters, clubs will risk losing 2 points to blood a few youngsters incase they are needed in the 'real' games - the playoffs.

27 regular season matches now barely matter, and its us fans who pay the price. £250 pound plus to watch 13 semi-meaningful games that are effectively pre-season friendlies until the season really starts in September. If you had to finish top to be Champions, every minute of every game is important. So its me and 3,500 Wiganers who paid and travelled to the match who suffers. Eventually regular season crowds will suffer. Even the team at Sky Sports on Friday night were saying Wire wouldn't be that bothered about losing - Eddie even asked Brian McDermott was he bothered about where he finished in the league!!!!

Thank you RFL and Sky Sports for ruining our game and brainwashing the masses.

o'brien had several run outs for the wire last season until he broke his leg, he's getting a little match time in now, i admit it's only against wigan but hey you can't have everything!

Whether Wigan actually disrespected Widnes or not is a matter of opinion.

For sure Wane overdid it, but young players need to be blooded, and better to do it against a side at the bottom of the table than one near the top.

But did he actually 'disrespect' Widnes.

The side he selected ran into big leads on two occasions. It doesn't seem totally unreasonable that he felt they had it in them to win. Losing an 18-point lead in the second half can't be 100% laid at Wane's door. He wasn't out there missing tackles. The fact that Widnes won by only one point hardly indicates that the team sent out to meet them was some kind of insult.

Can we keep Marsh?

Rumour has it that he may be heading to Saints next season.

Yes.

I think the fact some of the players picked hadnt played at that level this season, there was an inevitability that fatigue would play a part add to this the reduced subs and you compund the problem, the coaches job is to plan for this and put in a contingency and thats where wane IMO went wrong

I hope we get him, for his age he is showing great potnetial and took his try well against you lot Sunday.

I'd like Wigan to keep hold of Marsh for a little bit longer. He does have plenty of potential but there is a lot of improvement needed. I still haven't seen him pass the ball in a first team game but Goulding showed a similar tendency to hang onto the ball in his early years. If Marsh can work on being a 'wingers centre' rather than an individual he could make it.

Even if he doesn't make it as a centre I still think he could make a very handy winger.

I fully understand where you are coming from on this and have a certain amount of empathy, however to suggest that 3500 Wiganers who travelled to the match were in some way cheated is wrong.
I travell from South Staffs to most games so every game is like an away game for me. I seriously wasn't going to go on Sunday because I saw it as a fore gone conclusion.It was the team selection that changed my mind and Im glad I decided to go. I thought it was a terrific match with far more exitement than the expected 60 point drubbing,
worth every penny of the entrance and petrol money.

As has already been alluded too, he overdid it. I also have to question Wane's wisdom when we have a winger and a second rower (Goulding and Hughes) playing as centres, and a centre playing on the wing (Gelling). I also thought we looked more interested in bunching in and looking for the big hit than positioning correctly and sliding. The decisions to have Charnley go for goal so far out, and not to take a shot at a drop goal with 3 minutes to go seemed daft to me too. That's what happens when you don't have experienced heads out there I suppose. Against London I would go with the following side, which is also what I would have ran with v Widnes (apart from leaving out Goulding this time, to recover from his head injury):

FB 27 Russell
RW 2 Charnley
RC 24 Gelling
LC 26 Hughes
LW 5 Richards
SO 1 Sam
SH 6 Finch
P 14 Lima
H 9 McIlorum
P 23 Flower
SR 16 Farrell
SR 12 Hock
LF 13 O'Loughln

S 17 Tuson
S 21 Lauaki
S 7 Leuluai/28 Logan (depending on Leuluai's fitness, no risks!)
S 32 Spencer

Grimmy, are you resting Hansen?

I thought he played with his head up a little more on Sunday then I've seen in a Wigan shirt. He looked more at ease with himself and set up the first try with a break and pass and also put out a lovely flick pass in the 2nd half which Flynn couldn't take to go in the corner.

He's certainly got enough potential to get a new deal although like I've thought for a while his long term future should probably be on the wing.

A couple of people on the Saints board reckon they're looking at him.

Goulding is a centre not a winger, that's why he began his career at centre and is now playing in his preferred position of centre. If his performances so far this season haven't made it clear that he's a centre and not a winger then nothing will.

As for Hughes, he was bound to play centre given that he's standing in for Carmont. It's where he's played the last few games so switching his position wouldn't have made too much sense.

And Gelling, I think it's obvious after the game why he was played on the wing. He didn't exactly look like he'd be much better in the centres because defensively he was weak. It's not like he's unfamiliar with the position though as he's played on the wing before.

No harm in giving Hughes a shot at playing in his preferred position, and Hansen gets through a ton of work

He's doing well as a centre, but his best performances have still been on the wing. I'll start to believe he's right for the shirt he's got when he does the business in a close game against one of the big four.


Surely this was a prime opportunity to give him a shot in his preferred position though? With Gelling being brought in.


I think he looked like a fish out of water, and playing him on the wing can't have helped

But Hughes preferred position is second row, you've selected him at centre.

I dont think they have at all and some of his performances this season at centre have been top notch. Goulding is a natural centre and always has been, he represented England at every underage level in that position and he had never even played wing until he was in his 20s and played there in the first team. He is our starting centre and to juggle the team around even more when there is no need makes no sense.



Hughes natural position is second row and he has hardly ever played centre so it is not his preferred position at all. He even represented England academy at second row.



Gelling is hardly a natural centre either and is more of a second row and Auckland fans said this was his best position. He was put on the wing because his defence and positioning arent up to scratch at centre.

Aye but I would have played him at second row v Widnes, when Goulding was available

He has been doing a good job at centre in the last few games, albeit against weak opposition, but a natural centre? His main strengths are his finishing, his agility and his speed off the mark. His main weaknesses are poor defensive decision making, not passing and he's not very strong. He's clearly gone some way to overcoming his weaknesses, and those strengths are still good attributes for a centre to have in his nal, but I still think he's a winger playing at centre, and that Gelling at centre with Goulding on the wing makes much more sense than vice versa.


That's what I'm saying, it would be nice to see him get a run there. I reckon he would already prove a better option in the back row than Tuson


I'll have to bow to your greater knowledge if he's more of a second row than a centre, I was always told he was a centre. Either way, a second rower is further out of position on the wing than he is at centre, no?