I agree with Marshall, I also didn’t think Manfredi would be as good as he has been.

Hampshire was the big let down for me but he’s still got time to turn it around.

Kibula was hyped because of his size and I think by a lot of people who actually never watched the academy. I always dampened expectations of him on this forum. I personally don’t think it’s a good thing to be so much bigger than everyone when you are a junior, it’s just makes things easier and when inevitably people catch up in size to you by the time you become fully grown you won’t be prepared for it, I think being smaller and having a growth spurt later works better. His best attributes are also his hands, he wasn’t a battering ram forward and to me looked to be lacking spite in his character on the pitch. His work rate in both attack and defence was questionable. I think the best option for him might to be to trim up and become a ball playing 13.

Kubula is a very good ball player and Warrington must see something in him which makes them think that he can do better under the coaching of Price. The only thing I found wrong with him at Wigan was his casual attitude and not putting himself about more for a lad of his size.

As for Manfredi, he has not in my opinion, been the same player since his injuries and perhaps a move away from the wing to another position might be the answer, especially as he was never a winger at Leigh Miners.

I always thought it was weird that Hampshire didn't get more opportunities and had the sense that maybe it was one that the club got wrong. There were rumours that he didn't want to play FB, no idea whether that's true or whether there was some other reason Wane didn't like him. I remember him being sent to Cas on loan to play in the halves then never playing in the halves once he got there.

I have watched Kibula a number of times in the academy and i have to agree, he was missing that bit of dog in him especially for a guy of his size. He has brilliant hands though and he has the strength to back it up If he can bring that edge to his game aswell he could be a seriously good 13.

One thing that sticks out for me on Kibula is when i was watching an academy game vs. Leeds coached by Rob Burrow and they knew kibula was missing that bite to his game. We was stood near rob and he was calling out Kibula the whole game, calling out "bullseye 15" (can't remember the exact shirt number) to the Leeds players, basically saying target Kibula. If leeds knew to do this to him, other teams will aswell and it will get passed onto the first team to target him in particular and he will crack.

Saying that wigan nilled leeds and kibula actually had a good game throwing some brilliant passes, all the potential in the world and i hope it works out for him.

Over achiever for me is Sam Powell. No question in my mind. For years I’ve been on the “not good enough for Wigan” wagon but he has started to change my mind. Is he perfect? No but considering the amount of fans actively wanting him gone and for him to be where he is I think that’s some achievement.

Under achiever I’m going with Iain Thornley. He could have had such a better career here but something just didn’t seem to click with him and now he’s down in the Championship.

If we’re talking people over achieving from academy to first team then I wouldn’t put Marshall or Powell in that category as both were fine academy players. I was amazed when we released Marshall tbh after watching him in a good few academy games. I was chuffed when things worked out as they did.

In recent times I’d probably put Partington on the list of players achieving more than I expected at first team level. He’s never been a dominant metre maker, so I wondered if he could progress but he’s bringing loads of other things to the party and I do think he’s improving that metre making side of his game.

As for an under achiever I think Thornley is a decent shout as is Hampshire. Another player I loved watching in the academy who has had a decent career but hasn’t done as much as I thought he could would be Matty Russell. I thought he could become a really top level fullback but his game was found out a little in the first team and he got shunted to the wing.

Great shouts with Thornley and Russell.

I would do the same in attack too against him, I’m not sure whether it was tactical from the coaches to keep him fresh but he really does try and avoid tackling. Fitness is something that he can improve on and aggression is also something that could come in time too, he’s not really needed it in junior rugby.
I think he may come into his own further down the line in his mid twenties, at the moment he’s stuck between 2 things, he’s a monster of a lad who probably doesn’t play to his size but he’s also a brilliant ball handler but his size and fitness hold him back from playing at 13 or even possibly as a centre if he lost a lot of weight. I understand fully why Wigan let him go and at the same time why Warrington picked him up, be interesting to see how his career pans out.

Nick Stanton, Liam Carberry, Ben Davies - few names that come to mind that had good write ups about them on here. Joe Mellor too. Jack Murphy what ever happened to him? If I recall he had one game against Bradford at home (think we lost) but he scored a belter of a try. Thought he had something but don't recall him playing again.

Under Achiever - Daryl Lacey

Over Achiever - Shaun Edwards

Murphy played in the playoffs against Leeds and dropped a late bomb

I just don’t see Kibula playing consistently at the top level.

He lacks the athleticism.

Size can hide a lot of flaws as a prospect but a lack of athleticism will always get you found out at first team level.

He was chucked in late due to a last minute injury to Sam Tomkins. Had only played one first team game before it. I think many of us were surprised they didn't put Richards back there instead. Hit him hard mentally the dropped bomb, the club didn't really make sure he was alright after.

Wane's faith in youth.

He's all fine if Brett Finch doesn't have a brain fart though as I've said before.

Didn’t he have a good game and score a belting try or did I imagine that?

He was a real talent that lad and a shame that drop pretty much consigned him to a career in lower grade.

Daryl was outstanding at 10,11,12,13 ect.. but just never found a way through.

Hampshire was the one that came to mind in terms of underachievers. Didn't he get player of the series in an England/Aus school boys series? But aside from raw pace, he doesn't have much else to his game. Others that came to mind were Stefan Marsh, Tommy Coyle and Joe Mellor.

Leg injury put Mellor back, looked as good a prospect as Tomkins he still had some good games for Widnes

I think regards Mellor and Hampshire it is difficult if not impossible to bring 2 other players with similar roles in the team at the same time.

Mellor had Sam, Hampshire had Williams.

Very tough to bring those lads through and put them in the first team together, with the pressures and expectations of competing for trophies every year too.

Mellor had an injury at a really bad time which decided his fate and in truth Hampshire never really suited a team coached by Wane where Williams did.

I believe that Maguire rated Mellor above ST

Hampshire looked a million dollars in the academy and in first team looked like he never wanted the ball or responsibility of having to try and dictate play. For me sums up post 2005 players with little or zero personality who are overwhelmed by coaches. I watch him and he never looks like a confident player. A great pity. Another player consumed by rhe fear of the coach and lack of personal confidence.

I genuinely pray for the player who will give a finger to the coach and play the game as he sees ir

Wane dismantled Rocky.

He went from one of the most natural halves you could see to a player who was told to run set patterns and plays almost to a text book accuracy.

That’s not a criticism of Wane as it worked for him however the natural talent of Rocky was never going to fly at Wigan and it was probably a negative move for him to join Wigan.

It would be very very brave for a kid to rebel against a system put in place by a coach who has such loyalty from his team.

The Leeds comeback last week saw Gayle rebel a little and take the game into his own hands, the Bradford comeback by Trent Barrett was similar, he just ignored orders and did his thing that night.

Expecting a 17/18 year old kid to do the same I think is unrealistic.

He was shafted by Wigan

Blaming Waney is not fair, what about all the other players who have come through? They have had no problems with it. Since leaving Wigan he has had at least 3 different coaches and has done as ok as he did at Wigan. Lets not forget he was leaving Wakey last year as he was demanding more money and finished up with zero offers and stayed on presumably a lesser deal? Also there is some reason why none of the coaches have played him at 6 as a first choice when he was head and shoulders the best 6 at academy level as i watched most if not all the games around that time.sometimes players just don't kick on and sometimes they are poorly advised.

I’m not blaming Wane.

What I am saying it was the wrong move for Rocky to go to Wigan.

He didn’t fit the philosophy adopted by the head coach.

He was a much more natural off the cuff player.

He was a round peg trying to be squeezed into a square hole at a crucial time for his development and it didn’t work and set him back. I’ve no doubt about that.

Wanes method worked for others without doubt so you can’t criticise it but sadly on this case particularly Rocky was a casualty of that.

The Coyle brothers surely must be in the underachievers category?