Completely agree. Too much talk about forward passes and/or offsides that weren't or were. For me, we lost it when we failed to maintain pressure on the Saints line near the end. I wouldn't say they were out on their feet, but after so many sets, kicking early in the tackle-count was a big let-off for them.

I don't know whether it's too much of a leap to go from that to saying we need some new midfield commanders, but I totally agree that we seem to get our mid-match decision making wrong at least as much as we get it right. If we win the Grand Final, such concerns may get swept under the carpet, but personally I'll still be concerned that Matty is not the thinking halfback we need.

I agree in terms of we need to be more clinical but most importantly on Friday we physically matched Saints, now I know they didn't have Walmsley but we didn't have our best second rower in Farrell. I am confident if we play with that intensity against any of the 3 sides we will beat them. I have spoken to a fair few Saints fans since Friday and they all think they got away with it. I'm just hoping we were holding back some of our set plays for when the semi finals come round. I think Wigan fans were having the same conversation after Leeds beat us at the DW in 2013 in the Superman theme game. We're ready for the playoffs IMO. I think if Bateman doesn't give that silly penalty away where he picks up Swift over the line, we win. Small margins.

Controversial but I think a Hampshire/Williams partnership would have had the spark to get us over the line during that period of pressure. Smith just doesn't look dangerous enough IMO and as you say he's not exactly excelling in the leader/organiser role either

Re. Bateman, agreed. At the time I was thinking don't touch him, he'd have had to get up and then Bateman could have chucked him over the line.
Small things indeed.

My main worry with us is our play close to the opposition line isn't good enough. We've got players who can score from anywhere on the field but get us in that opposition 20 and we turn in to a rabble. That's a massive concern when it comes to big games because teams scramble that bit harder, concentrate that bit more and that makes it more difficult to score points. You need to be able to grind teams down and score points down their end. I'd guess we're the worst side of the 4 left when it comes to converting possession in the opposition 20.

All teams have got strength and weaknesses. Wigan dictated the speed of the play the ball a lot better, which helped massively in the battle up the middle in terms of yardage for the driving forwards and freedom for the dummy half. That should have been the deciding factor over the 80, really. As it was, you may point to Bowen's failure under the bomb, but he was pretty good throughout the game and any failing by him was, imo, eclipsed by Quinlan being a complete non-entity throughout.
Lockers turned up and had a big day, so its a shame for you didn't capitalise on it as, to be fair, with him missing games and getting on, you don't get to see that every week.

Both teams turned over a lot of possession for whatever reason. That's the main thing both clubs need to work on, but saints also need to sort out imposing them selves on the pace of the game.

And, for what its worth, that was definitely a forward pass from Swift.

Friday just goes down as another game that Saints "somehow" won by hanging in there and not letting go.

No it wasn't.

And stop putting your team down. We won because we never gave up for 80 minutes regardless of what Wigan sent our way, and our goal line defence was astonishing and our tries superb. We showed something of the never say die attitude that Saints used to be known for, but this time against 13 Pies with all their best players on the pitch.

Yes it was.

So all our best players were on the pitch?
No wonder we lost seeing how quiet Sarginson and Farrell were.
That was a really big game they went missing in!

In normal play no one would have batted an eye lid, but because Hicks blew immediately and backed himself the camera's then went on to do the same. It was forward albeit marginally.

I'm not going to get into the forward pass as those who are convinced one way or the other will not be moved on the matter.

But I don't buy that Wigan were holding back set plays or something else for the semi-finals. When you are playing at that kind of intensity there is not the space and time to think about holding something back or saying well we'll not use that play tonight because it may get found out before the semis.

Both sides gave it a good show and both sides will be convinced and happy that next time they can play better.

Whoever is saying that about Wigan holding back have obviously blown a fuse. That was Wigan at their best so they had better get used to it, we were only missing Farrell and Sarginson, the latter not being the same player he was last year anyway.

It was me regarding set plays. I know it was done during Maguire's years. Anyone suggesting sides don't hold back certain plays for big games obviously have little knowledge of pro sport.

So you thought Wigan held back? I book yourself an appointment at the docs mate, that was Wigan at their best. As already pointed out by Nicky Kiss, Wigan are a complete sham on our oppositions line and we had plenty of spent time on Saints try line on Friday night.

I actually said I was hoping we were. Not sure if you've read my post. I'm not saying they DID, just that it's been done before.

I'm with you, I hope we're not showing our hand but I doubt it. We've been terrible in the opposition twenty all year. We seem to lose all shape and organisation and we really need to work hard on it. Sadly it's a bit late in this season and I do expect it to pick up ten fold next season when Sam is back because he'll undoubtably organise us much better then Bowen (who's been excellent recent but is more of an off the cuff player then Sam Tomkins who's totally changed his style of play).

Guys like Matty Smith, McIlorum and Lockers should take a vast amount if blame for it IMO. They're the senior blokes and should be calling the shots. I do take a certain amount if pity on them though as they don't have a Walmsley, Masoe, Cuthbertson or even Crabtree to act as a decoy which puts just enough doubt in the opposition mind to open up space for others.

Farrell I grant you (though we were missing Walmsley) but you've been better without Sarginson this year.

Ah who cares. The result means nothing if we beat Cas.

If Saints are away in the play off's they go out. I want them down here. Let Huddersfield and Leeds battle the other one out.

You'd think people would have learned their lesson with regards to bold statements like that at this stage of the season.

Comments like that have a funny way of coming back to bite you.

You won't get an easy passage like last year and a fluke in the final again. You are poor champions.

Yes, I agree. But to be fair, we haven't exactly been fantastic ourselves throughout the season.

Yeah but you're much poorer runners-up!

Haha. Like you lot cared about easy passages when you won the cup in 2013.

Easy!!! you must be kidding. We beat the greatest, bestest world champion team in the universe that year. Leigh