You equate facts with straw clutching do you? Plenty of them on the Superleague website. When you've had a look please come back and prove otherwise.

It's pretty obviously who is clutching straws and it isn't me.



I see, you can quote one example, but when I do the same it isn't relevant. The try still needed scoring and given the situation, he was under considerably more pressure than a normal early season game at home v Hull.

If anyone thinks Calderwood only had pace they obviously don't watch games very closely. It also doesn't explain how he was SL try scorer either.

It is, but given what happened earlier that week with yet another Mo points deductions and our position, had we lost that Leeds game I personally didn't see a way back for us. That win was absolutely huge for us. Had we gone down, we'd still be rebuilding now.

He was the SL top try scorer because like all top try scoring wingers before him he's played outside very good players or in good teams.

If Claders game had something more than pace I'd love you'd 2 tell me what it was.

So the same as our two wingers this season then?



Well seeing as you think Dwain Chambers would have done a similar job I feel I would be wasting my time. Heart, guile, a rugby brain and a defence for a start.

Been looking at those straw clutching stats yet? You seem to have gone quiet about them.

Indeed. I've no doubt the reason why Pryce gets some of his abuse is the same reason Calderwood got his - and it has nothing to do with rugby.

Jesus

Are you really saying what i think you are?

to be fair all good wingers need pace and he had it in bucket loads. Your arguments would suggest yiou think Offiah was a bad winger as his game was based around pace. He came inside and made little ground but relieved pressure like Calderwood and their defences weren't the best.......do you think Offiah was no good too?

For a small minority, unfortunately yes.

Calderwood hardly got any decent ball while he was at Wigan.

I think the best pass he ever got was the one off Bradford when he went the length of the field in the play off!

a minority of Wigan fans?

You think a minority of Wigan fans don't like KP for "not so obvious reasons"?

I don't mean to be thick but i thought as a Wigan player it wouldn't matter whether he was taking drugs or cheating. Never mind what you are suggesting.

I know you dont mean to be, but you are thick...

you mean that they aren't from Wigan ?

takes one to know one!

also, I'm not thick. That isn't nice is it? i was bang on the money.

I've read this a few times now and I'm still at a loss at what you're trying to get at.

That's certainly one way of looking at it.

Don't be including me in your "small minority"

To be quite honest whilst i imagine some folks views are perhaps tainted by racism, it is sorry to see a discussion about a controversial player be dragged down with this kind of talk.

TBH it stinks. Seems more a ploy by yourself in order to label people who disagree with you a possible racist.

Well done you have won your argument.

I've not included anyone specific so don't worry yourself.

So while you agree some people's views will be tainted by racism, we shouldn't be talking about it - even though you admit it happens? What the problem?

I won my argument when you wrote the rubbish you did about him being lazy and a shocking defender - there's plenty of facts out there that show that not to be the case.

Of course it happens, but you cant say that this is a major factor in they way Calderwood gets criticised by people. Of course we can discuss it on here, but surely this racism applies to every RL player of black origin?

If that is the case should we discuss racism EVERY time someone has an negative opinion about a non white players performance?

I don't rate him as a player and i think his attitude absolutely stinks. Fair enough his Stats are compatible to Pat Richard, but are you seriously comparing the two?

For a start I said it was a "small minority". I also didn't say we should discuss it everytime either. You seemed to have a problem with it being discuss at all.



And of course I've never seriously compared the two overall either. I did however compare their stats on the very areas you criticise Calderwood - being "lazy" and a "shocking defender", where Calderwood's stats are no worse and in some areas actually better than Pat. I take it you can now see the difference?

I take it you wouldn't criticise Pat as being "lazy" or a "shocking defender"? So why do it for Calderwood?

I don't think that's the case. I agree that if they were from Wigan they wouldn't get anywhere near the same amount of jip but I don't think skin colour comes into it. If you want to talk non-rugby reasons for fans not liking Karl Pryce I'd point to his brother first.

Very true. When you also realise who Calderwood's centres were as well compared to who Richards and Goulding have inside them now Calderwood was on a hiding to nothing.

Dave

so if it takes one to know one but you state you arent thick is that actually a compliment to me?

Offiah was a great winger ! But I agree with the Calderwoods fans on here, Offiah had Andrew Farrar, Gene Miles, Dean Bell, Joe Lydon, Gary Connolly, Tuigamla to name a few inside him. If Calderwood had these guys inside him, TRY TIME !

Before people jump on his defence, Offiah let tries in every week however for every try he let in he scored 2. Like I say great winger. Calderwood was no different to the likes of David Meyers ( rip ) Mark Preston etc. Raw pace !

I think that with Karl people simply look at the size of him and see his potential, but its frustrating that he hasnt yet really developed into the player people think he can be - i don't think he did at all bad when he was given his chance in 2010 and hopefully he can kick on and improve next season.

As for Calderwood and a number of other players that played for Wigan in 2006 they lacked confidence and Calderwood expecially just didnt get the same opportunities that he did playing in a strong Leeds side.