Something i cant get my head around

Nobles bradford sides would never have thought a semi was ok..why does nobles wigan side believe this to be ok

No they have made them 6 inches longer at the front and extended his heels 4 inches backwards to stop him getting knocked on his 4rse by smaller opponent in the tackle

I agree. There are times when it's a good idea to keep your head down. Harrison Hansen clearly hasn't learned this yet.

Seems he's still suffering from that annual bout of Wilkinitis!

Partly because Noble's Wigan side almost got relegated not too many seasons ago, whereas Noble's Bradford side were already pushing for the honours when he took over. In his most recent interviews Noble always referred to how well Wigan have improved, from escaping relegation to semi finals in the cup and then semi finals of the play offs for the last 3 years. In fact I think the day after we were knocked out against Saints he said he was proud of the job he did turning things round at Wigan. If you're proud of saving a team from relegation you won't expect them to win some silverware every year.

And with regards to the players not responding to the training, if they don't want to train hard do we really want them? if they don't commit to training, how well are they going to commit to the club on the field?

Edit: and I can't see any players not wanting to pull their weight in training. I think they'll all be wanting to put right what went wrong this season with some of the performances. If they work on their fitness pre season we'll have more consistency over the season. hopefully no more great wins one week followed by a horrible performance the next because we were still knackered!

Well he would wouldn't he? He is hardly going to say anything different and is not exactly an unbiased observer. What he didn't say was that his sides have never matched the consistency achieved when he first arrived to save the club from relegation nor will he acknowledge that performance-wise we have not improved over three seasons.

The relegation card is over played because we were not a bad side, just a badly coached side. Noble and the addition of two players meant it went from rubbish to a side all the teams above were glad it didn't make the playoffs but I think it's fair to say we have just not improved on that level of performance since then nor even matched how we played in the latter half of 2006.



If we do then we will have a better season with the same players and the change in coach will be justified regardless of anything else. It is certainly going to be interesting to see how Feka and Piggy respond and what sort of players they turn into. It's not just them though because players like Roberts who doesn't look like a winger of the same reputation he had in the NRL may improve but if none of them do then they are not the players for us.

Dave

A very good point. Once MM gets his hands on them, there'll be no real excuse for under-performance, lack of fitness etc. After just one season under a much tougher regime, I reckon we'll have a clearer picture about who we want at the club and and who we don't want.

Those who aren't responding, for whatever reason - be it age, inability, misplaced (and futile) loyalty to the former coach, or simply that they came here for a paid holiday and damn it, that's what they're going to have! - should be shown the door at the first opportunity. There are too many young bucks waiting to come through from the lower ranks, and now a guy in charge who'll promote them, for us to tolerate any of that kind of nonsense.

Next year will be a big year for Fielden in particular as he will be after a new contract (not necessarily with Wigan) and with Wane and MM coaching him and Ben Davies and Eamon O'Carroll waiting in the wings he can't afford to just plod along and be a passenger.

The same goes for Palea'aesina and Coley.

Untill the last few games I thought Feka has been poor this season plus he needs to run onto the ball from deeper, lose a stone or two and play for longer.

Coley was great untill a few games after he renewed his contract, needs to put weight on his legs, run the bal in harder, stop lying on and giving daft penalties and get a bit of aggression into him.

Like Shaun Wane said we need a bit of dog into the forwards.

i don't think we'll ever see an Ellery Hanley fiasco again.

Hanley was trapped between two worlds - the amateur and the professional. Despite his salary!

The Aussies like Piggy and Famous may struggle to lift up to a new level of professionalism considering they both came to England for a working holiday.

Surely it's not that complicated is it? Bradford had one of the best squads in the world never mind England so a semi final would have been rightly classed as a failure. On the other hand our squad isn't as good as Saints or Leeds' and hasn't been for the last 3 years.

While teams should never aspire to reach semi finals and thats it I think its the best this squad could achieve.

I honestly don't understand that.

Do you really think the current squad played to the absolute best of it's abilities, and was 100% prepared phyisically, mentally, and tactically in each of the semi final's we've lost? (some of which by 4 points only).

but which teams have we played in the semi finals?

The latest, against St Helens, no we probably shouldn't have won that on paper. They are the stronger team over the season and were at home, but we still didn't play well.

The others, warrington this year, they finished outside of the playoffs, we should beat them if we play to our potential. Cas a couple of years ago.

Warrington are nowhere near as good a team as leeds or saints, but TS got them up for a semi-final and they performed and then won it.

Physically yes, tactically debatable, mentally no. There just aren't enough "winners" in this team.

Personally I think Wire have a better squad than us, they have just been missing a good coach. Big games tend to be won in the pack, hence our defeats to Wire and Cats IMO, can't stress the IMO enough though.

True, but if you get Fielden back playing to what he can, get Feka playing to what he can, Prescott is a good super league player, and Coley is a very good 4th choice prop, not leading the line as he is at the minute.

Big if IMO. Hopefully the new coaches can do it, I'm just hoping people don't think the new guys are going to be miracle workers. The prop department is still a big concern for me. People are talking about Coley being off contract next year, he was off contract this year and we chose to re-sign him rather than use his salary and the money freed up from Hock's release to sign a world class prop.

If the Graham rumours are true then I would be really excited about next year. As it is I don't think just replacing the coach will be enough.

The problem was though i don't think that there was a) a true world class prop available, and b) that Coleys wage [ignoring Smiths because of juniors upgrades) would be able to cover a world class player. So why not add Coley to the list of players coming off season in 2010 when there are some true world class players available as well as the cap space being free to sign them rather than adding a decent aussie prop that will then take up a quota spot for 3/4 years instead of being patient.

I'd actually forgot about Smith's money. The prop doesn't have to be an Aussie. Burgess has just gone down under. Would Coley's salary plus Smith's plus a bit of the money freed up from Hock's salary been enough to tempt him?

I'm only speculating here of course. Burgess may have wanted to go to Oz regardless and I am aware some of Hock's money has been used to upgrade some of the youngsters salaries.

Also Burgess isn't the only one out there, just using him as an example.

underperforming, but even so i haven't seen many props going to other clubs that i think we've mnissed out on, exception of the guy who's gone to wakefield, forget his name.

Couldn't agree more. Although Fielden and Coley aren't as bad as they're made out to be they are just steady, solid players and aren't fierce enough for me. Basically in wigan speyk we need a sh*thouse

Absolutely, we had that in Hock in a way but we were far too over-reliant on him which made our attack far too one-sided. Other than that, get a cattle-prod up feka's ar$e just before he comes on perhaps?

tbh i don't even feel we've missed out on tronc, not from reading the NRL boards of his own club, they feel he didn't give them much and aren't sad to see him go.

And yes, they mostly want to see somebody take webb off their hands to, feel like we dodged a bullet there.

All the things you've said though can be coached. That's why i don't understand that we're not good enough (in terms of the bodies in the team) for another coach to progress us beyond a semi final.

It depends whose responsibility you think it is to get players up for a semi final. I tend to sway on the side that if a player can't get himself up for a big game without needing someone to motivate him he shouldn't be playing.

I said tactically - debatable. Again I don't think tactics were a problem in our defeats but can perfectly understand if people think they were.

I think it's the coaches responsibility to motivate and prepare the team so that they are firing at their best in a Semi final. Look at Neil Cowie, he was great for us, but hardly a world beater before getting the right coaching and being part of the correct setup.