That depends on people seeing Tomkins as a SO or SH.

IMO of past players Dobson would be perfect.

The idea situation for me would been Barrett for a year or two with Sam at SH, then Dobson coming back and Sam moving to stand off when he's perhaps become a bit more of a physical presence.

If we still had Barret, Tomkins would not even of got in the team yet. I see your point though.

I don't think it really matters, you need a player with more of an organisational game at the moment, whether that be a SH like Dobson or a SO like Barrett.

Though I don't think Dobson is much better than average tbh, he looked to excel at your place because you'd been that used to the dross that was Moran. He's doing well at HKR, but again he's just playing a fairly decent game however he's doing it consistently.

I think you are right about us needing someone to organize and it would be great to have someone teaching Sam this side of the game however he is still just one player in a team of 17 therefore surely it is best to try and find his best position.

It's a difficult scenario.

Probably to keep the likes of Wild, Brown, Robinson (ignoring any off field issues) etc. on, you have to up their wages, and guarantee them first team opportunities. Thus you have to cut back on over seas signings.

If the club cut bak on over seas signings in favour of promoting youth, they cut get shouted down from the fans (as is the case now).

I'd like to think a happy medium could be achieved under the current staff at the club, but such idealism was never realistic under Lindsay.

i can only think we can't have gone in for him, we have enough room on the cap and must surely be a more attractive proposition than wakefield. To think of the players that they are signing for next year, there isn't a huge amount leaving that would free up a stupid amount of capspace.

I think they're going to be a team to watch next year, although a lot depends on whether they ccan keep brough.

Absolute nail on head with that post!

Exactly and the very reason we HAVE to get rid of nobby and get a decent coach in next year. If you compare the line ups from the semis position for position we beat them virtually in every department, yet they are in a challenge cup final and 3rd in the league!!



Comparing the two semi final line ups -
B. Hodgson > Phelps
Cudjoe < Richards
Lolesi < Carmont
Whaturia < Gleeson
D. Hodgson, = Roberts
Brown < Tomkins.
Robinson <Leuleui> Prescott
Moore = Riddell
Griffin < Coley
Wild < Bailey
Fulton < Hansen
Faiumu <Oloughlin> Fielden
Jackson < Feka
Kirmond < Tomkins
Lunt < Flanagan

So player for player in each position id have us running out as convincing at 12 - 3 winners with two players pretty much like for like.

Shows you what a decent coach can do! If brown or smith would have come to wigan at the start of the season we would be at wembley and top two IMO.

I think I'd probably have Whatuira over Gleeson on current form, Dodgy over Roberts, Moore over Riddell, Wild over Bailey and any of their props over Fielden.

Still doesn't take away from the fact that Nathan Brown is doing a superb job.

I'd agree with that, for me the real key is Brown and what he's brought to that side, perhaps were we to sign Micheal McGuire he may have a similar effect for us, he'd be my first choice my a mile.

McGuire could prove to be the ace in the pack. I don't know much about him but I think he's been on the scene at Melbourne for a good few years which is no bad thing at all. Anyone who has had experience of coaching current NRL is already a step ahead of the competition IMO.

Any way them 4 will see you at Wembley

or maybe not

I do wonder where all the massive plaudits from Hudds amongst others were for Brown, Robinson, Hodgson, Wild were when they were still playing for Wigan. I seem to remember a lot of the fans of other clubs telling us they were overrated or garbage.

I think the key to them kicking on their performances is a)What would have happened to their careers had they failed to impress/had disciplinary issues at another club (also known as the rocket up the ), and b) What a different coach has managed to bring to their games and develop them

When we were linked with him in the Guardian, I looked into the guy as much as possible reading every article and anything I could get my hands on regarding him. The thing that seemed to be repeated time after time was his insistence on using the most modern day techniques available coupled with as much scientific know how as possible to prepare players to there peak psychical and mental best. Plus the growing reports he got from peers and a like was nothing short of fantastic, certainly a man I would love to see in charge at Wigan.

Brown is a coach who employs dubious methods, bordering on the unfair.Wild scored 2 tries but should have been sent off for his blatant trip on Roby.come on the wire at Wembley.

I think what you have to take into consideration, is the amount of good youngsters Wigan produce. For me, Wigan seem to produce more promising youngsters than any other club. It is inevitable that you'll let some go, who then go on to have great careers on RL. Just look who you have coming through now before you start pondering what could have been. Prescott and big Tompkins look like handy players to me and I thought Flanagan looked really promising against us on Sat.

I think I'd have Brown and Wild back.

We were far too hasty with Kev Brown, a bit similar to Lee Gilmour really. Hopefully he'll come back one day, but who knows.

Wild too, is a top class, consistent Super League performer who I'd take over Hansen most days.

[url=http://www.therfl.co.uk/about/disciplinary_item.php?id=1369Blatent Trip[/url or "Player attempts to stop ball from kick with foot, collision with opponent"

bless !!

For me the worst incident in the game was the cheap shot swinging arm from KFC on Luke Robinson. Jiffy saw it, gave a sharp intake of breath then didn't have the nads to comment on it.

This is what i posted on the Giants site in response to some off the stuff on here. Slightly out of context but the general gist is there.





But the problems at wigan go deeper than just having a new coach..

K Brown was not hounded out by the coach it was the fans and their refusal to accept less than perfection or immediate success which contributed to the massive pressure on him and the subsequent loss of confidence.

the ownership of wigan first with maurice and then Lenegan who wanted to buy immediate success and bring in overpaid ( overweight) aussies rather than realistically building slowly from the great number of young players you have in the area. All this was compounded by the fact that too many Wigan fans judged everything on the past rather than the present and too late realised with SL, SC and franchising that you could not buy immediate success.

The goalposts have changed and now you have to take small steps over a few years . that is what the Giants have done. Our crowds, team, backroom staff, merchandising has been building over the last five years. None of that was due to Brown. Most of it is due to our chairman.

Brown has taken a group of underperforming players and got them to realise their potential. Some quality recruits have been added but Hodgson was wanted before Brown was even approached. Brown has then taken these players and instilled in them good coaching and AUSTRALIAN approach to the game of getting defence sorted and letting the rest follow. his personality seems to have made the players happy.

This however was not luck. Brown was thoroughly vetted and interviewed to make sure we got the right man. That is down to our chairman and the management team.

the original post on the Wigan board seemed to suggest that getting brown was a bit of luck and all the success we have was down to him. that is just plain wrong he built a good house on solid foundations layed by davy, smith and Sharp.

In general i like Wigan fans and the club but there is still a lack of humility which i think is needed before your club can move on. To suggest that kevin Brown would be back at wigan like a shot if given the chance is way off the mark. Why would he swap what he has now for uncertainty in moving back to Wigan even if he is a Wigan lad at heart.

A successful club is more than a coach it is a combination of many parts all working together. nathan brown is a big part of it but if the other bits were not working his influence would be really diminished

Very good post, and very true.

Brown is a confidence player and it was knocked and he began to let errors into his game, we should of given him more time but I still do not think he would of fully made it at Wigan.

The paragraph on ownership is spot on, we should of been building even from the start from the start of this season, we should not of signed Riddell and Roberts, we should of kept Colbon, played our youth along with another prop forward and the signing of Gleeson would still of been made.

You talk about you building your club and I agree Hudds is an example along with Hull KR and wire of how a smaller club takes the steps to be a bigger one, but realistically we do not need to do those things, the only thing wrong with Wigan in the big picture is results on the field although there are things around that which are not good as well. Our crowds, and all that jaz are pretty damn good. We need a good team on the field and the rest will come, I have no doubt we will get crowds over 20,000 when we get back to the top. Hudds had to do it the other way around.

Brown has done a top job and made the most of what he has got. The australian approach was always going to work as we get beat by them every year. I do not think the success of Brown is down to any luck.

Brown would come back to Wigan I think you would find but only if he knew he had a place.

PMSL What a load of tosh. You deserve post of the year!!! Look at league postions pal and we turned you over at your place.