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| Quote ="jinkin jimmy"Agree with all this, but what is the reason for the obvious "flatness" in the team? Their body language was terrible yesterday, plodding around everywhere with no urgency. Could it be the way they are being coached that is getting them down?'"
Gb under Noble were the same, as were Bradford towards the end of his time there.
Coincidence?
This was the main reason i was not happy when he was appointed truth be told, that along with his one man rugby approach.
I never noticed his defensive plays at Braford or GB to be honest but it would be interesting to see if they match the tactics he employs with us.
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| Quote ="jonh"Gb under Noble were the same, as were Bradford towards the end of his time there.
Coincidence?
'"
LOL so are you saying that Tony Smith's team looked better than Nobles? GB at least put up some kind of fight against the Aussies with Noble as coach and as for Bradford looking flat well Noble left them as world champions so that blows that theory out of the water.
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| Quote ="Charlie Seeling"You complain if I post as regards you and yet you are here again.
I would be interested to know who gave Cruncher my IP addresses also. Invasion of privacy?'"
Ah good. So you got that message before it was removed.
This childishness is over as far as I'm concerned. It's up to you whether you want to start it up again.
Stick to your rugby assessments and lay off the childish personal stuff, and we'll all be a lot happier.
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| Quote ="jinkin jimmy"Agree with all this, but what is the reason for the obvious "flatness" in the team? Their body language was terrible yesterday, plodding around everywhere with no urgency. Could it be the way they are being coached that is getting them down?'"
Theres no excuse for the flatness of the team, i think the players are to blame for that not the coaching. Certain players managed to look enthusiastic e.g. O'Carroll, Hansen, Tomkins to name 3. A large proportion of the others looked like they'd rather be somewhere else.
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| There was a brief moment yesterday and one v Leigh where the players played entirely off the cuff and they were literally passing/drawing, offloading etc. Now you clearly cannot do that for 80 minues but it does show they actually have skill.
Noble talked about getting caught cold v Wakey. We got caught cold so many times it is untrue in 2007/2008 BUT we then had Trent to get us out of jail. It was lmost as if we will play the Noble way but when it gos pear shaped e will play it as we see it.
It's not really fair to Wakey but trent would have = an undeserved win for us yesterday.
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| Quote ="Nogga"I agree that Sam should be given a proper chance as there is absolutely no spark in our attack what so ever!!
However we had one of the best stand offs in the world here last season and our attack was still very very poor. I think Nobles coaching style is killing us more than just simply not having a decent 6 or giving Sam a go.'"
I agree with you.
With 5 drives and a kick ( unless within opposition's 20m line) it won't make any difference who we bring in.
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| Quote ="jonh"The only time we saw what Trent could do at his best was usually when the game plan went out of the window and we were playing catch up rugby, i feel sure had Trent been playing yesterday we would be talking about a garbage performance but a narrow win, i am affraid Noble has lost his major bit of paper to cover some significant cracks in his approach to the game losing TB.'"
Totally agree. Noble relies on barnstorming runs from Feka and Hock, with an offload off the back of it, or breaks from dummy half. If that fails it used to be the Trent Barrett factor.
Another thing i don't quite understand is how Noble says we will now be able to play a more expansive game this season. If you cant play an expansive game with Trent in the team, how the hell does losing him mean we will be more expansive!?!?
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| Quote ="Nogga"Totally agree. Noble relies on barnstorming runs from Feka and Hock, with an offload off the back of it, or breaks from dummy half. If that fails it used to be the Trent Barrett factor.
Another thing i don't quite understand is how Noble says we will now be able to play a more expansive game this season. If you cant play an expansive game with Trent in the team, how the hell does losing him mean we will be more expansive!?!?'"
Very good posts by you and by Jon H
I do not think the players do not put the effort in but they are given a schoolboy RL game plan and it means they actually work harder than their opponents do by trying to knock down brick walls.
Jack Gibson coined a phrase "Coach Killer" well Brian Noble is a "Player killer" Would you want to play for Brian Noble. Winger in a Brian Noble team must tantamont to signing your own death warrant.
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| Quote ="Charlie Seeling"Very good posts by you and by Jon H
I do not think the players do not put the effort in but they are given a schoolboy RL game plan and it means they actually work harder than their opponents do by trying to knock down brick walls.
Jack Gibson coined a phrase "Coach Killer" well Brian Noble is a "Player killer" Would you want to play for Brian Noble. Winger in a Brian Noble team must tantamont to signing your own death warrant.'"
Yet Vanikolo and Vaikona scored shed loads of trys at Bradford.
People try to say Bradfords wingers played like extra props well thats not true as Hape and Vanikolo had a lethal partnership and scored some wonderful centre/wing partnership trys.
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| Quote ="Red Hot Jalapeno"Yet Vanikolo and Vaikona scored shed loads of trys at Bradford.
People try to say Bradfords wingers played like extra props well thats not true as Hape and Vanikolo had a lethal partnership and scored some wonderful centre/wing partnership trys.'"
Bradford played some great expansive rugby at times and regularly ran in loads and loads of points. People use the "boring rugby" soundbite as easily as the "it wasn't Nobles team". He left with them World Champions, I wonder who was responsible for that.
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| Quote ="AJ"He left with them World Champions, I wonder who was responsible for that.'"
Well obviously it was Matthew Elliot who coached them for the WCC game before he left God knows how many years ago!
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| Indeed they did but it was very crude. Wingers like Lesley are not the norm.
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| Quote ="Red Hot Jalapeno"Well obviously it was Matthew Elliot who coached them for the WCC game before he left God knows how many years ago!'"
Or perhaps McNamara is a true coaching guru....
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| Quote ="AJ"Bradford played some great expansive rugby at times and regularly ran in loads and loads of points. People use the "boring rugby" soundbite as easily as the "it wasn't Nobles team". He left with them World Champions, I wonder who was responsible for that.'"
World Champions is not really worth much though is it when one looks closer. Nobody thinks the team that wins it is the best team in the world. Well apart from Gary Hethrington.
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| Quote ="Charlie Seeling"World Champions is not really worth much though is it when one looks closer. Nobody thinks the team that wins it is the best team in the world. Well apart from Gary Hethrington.'"
Perhaps the Aussies don't take it as seriously, but Wests wanted to win that game, but if you wont have WCC then how about SL Champs then?
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| If everything was great why did he leave AJ? Maybe like a Harry Rednapp he realised the club/team had peaked and would be going downwards so he jumped ship before it sank.
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| Quote ="Charlie Seeling"World Champions is not really worth much though is it when one looks closer. Nobody thinks the team that wins it is the best team in the world. Well apart from Gary Hethrington.'"
So ok,how do you explain the GF wins he coached Bradford to along with numerous CC wins. It seems suddenly none of these wins are worth much. If Noble was as bad a coach as people make out with such little knowledge then there is no way he could of been so successful with Bradford. The fact is he proved himself to be able to coach a winning team. Wether you like his style or not is another matter. Personally i prefer defence orientated games rather than high risk Millward style.
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| Quote ="Charlie Seeling"If everything was great why did he leave AJ? Maybe like a Harry Rednapp he realised the club/team had peaked and would be going downwards so he jumped ship before it sank.'"
Everything wasn't great. He didn't get on with some directors at Bradford.
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| Quote ="Charlie Seeling"If everything was great why did he leave AJ? Maybe like a Harry Rednapp he realised the club/team had peaked and would be going downwards so he jumped ship before it sank.'"
That would be it. That and a souring relationship with the bosses @ the Bulls.
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| Its pointless comparing us to when Noble was coaching at Bradford. They played very, very boring but had the biggest team in history.
They often relied on field position off the back of penaltys and barged over the line. We havn't got the players to play like that!
I am not actually very anti-Noble. I think he has a lot of strong points but we really need to employ a coach with some attacking nouse to help him out.
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| Quote ="Red Hot Jalapeno"So ok,how do you explain the GF wins he coached Bradford to along with numerous CC wins. It seems suddenly none of these wins are worth much. If Noble was as bad a coach as people make out with such little knowledge then there is no way he could of been so successful with Bradford. The fact is he proved himself to be able to coach a winning team. Wether you like his style or not is another matter. Personally i prefer defence orientated games rather than high risk Millward style.'"
You are equating coaching ability with winning trophies. The true measure of a coach is how much he gets out of the players available to him.
If I accept your premise then Ian Millward is a similarly outstanding coach and you would have to agree with that.
I think Brian Smith is a great coach. Neil Henry one of the top half dozen in the world but by your method of assessment both are abject failures.
IMO Brian Noble was in the right place at the right time and he was astute enough to not tamper with it but the groundwork of Brian Smith/Matthew Elliott and a then little known skills coach called Mick Potter laid the foundations. Without those foundations what would Noble have achieved? Carl Jennings the conditioner played a huge part too.
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| We can all agree on the team for next week and how ludicrous Noble's team selection was. Some saw it before we had even kicked a ball and then nearly everyone can see it now.
But we can rant about it till we're blue in the face but at the end of the day only one man can change that side around. Brian Noble.
Let's just see if he does, I predict he wont. I think he will drop Mathers and keep Coley in the side. I think we will line up like this:
Roberts
Phelps
Goulding
Carmont
Richards
Smith
Leuluai
Fielden
Riddell
Feka
Hock
Bailey
Lockers
-----------------------------------
Hansen
Coley
O'carroll
Tomkins (Joel)
With Brian Noble's previous record I don't think much will change.
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| Quote ="Charlie Seeling"You are equating coaching ability with winning trophies. The true measure of a coach is how much he gets out of the players available to him.
If I accept your premise then Ian Millward is a similarly outstanding coach and you would have to agree with that.
I think Brian Smith is a great coach. Neil Henry one of the top half dozen in the world but by your method of assessment both are abject failures.
IMO Brian Noble was in the right place at the right time and he was astute enough to not tamper with it but the groundwork of Brian Smith/Matthew Elliott and a then little known skills coach called Mick Potter laid the foundations. Without those foundations what would Noble have achieved? Carl Jennings the conditioner played a huge part too.'"
Something else we agree on. I'm getting worried.
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| Quote ="Charlie Seeling"You are equating coaching ability with winning trophies. The true measure of a coach is how much he gets out of the players available to him.
If I accept your premise then Ian Millward is a similarly outstanding coach and you would have to agree with that.
I think Brian Smith is a great coach. Neil Henry one of the top half dozen in the world but by your method of assessment both are abject failures.
IMO Brian Noble was in the right place at the right time and he was astute enough to not tamper with it but the groundwork of Brian Smith/Matthew Elliott and a then little known skills coach called Mick Potter laid the foundations. Without those foundations what would Noble have achieved? Carl Jennings the conditioner played a huge part too'"
Agree with this, in his confort zone Noble was happy to pick up the ball and run with it, he changed nothing about the Bulls style of play and ethos. Lets not forgett Noble cut his teeth in this environment, and learned his trade through this ethos, i do not think personally if you want to be a polished rounded end product you can serve your aprentiship in one environmet, if you do you start to produce clones of your teachers who are only exposed to 1 set of methods.
When faced with a different team of different style players that do not necissarily fit this ethos and take him out of this comfort zone I feel at the moment it is being proven that he has some major limitations. Hopefully the next few weeks will disprove this theory,
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| Quote ="Charlie Seeling"You are equating coaching ability with winning trophies. '"
Where did i do that?
I said if Noble was as BAD a coach as people are making out he could not of won so many things year on year. Im not saying he is a coaching guru or another John Monie but he is not a bad coach either.
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