Reading the BBC report it seems the RFL and/or SL didn't do due diligence on Toronto's financial status when they were first admitted. I could not believe it when I read that. This is another screw up along the lines of saying Bradford were financially sound before they went bust when we had the franchise model.

It also seems the clubs who voted against readmission were concerned the financial projections from the new owners were not believable so they voted to avoid the chance of a repeat performance next year. Given the covid situation is not likely to be resolved quickly I can understand that it would be a huge risk to readmit them and that is before you start asking questions about is it right a club that drops out can just waltz back in regardless of where they are from. It's a pity its all gone wrong but given this is RL it's not that much of a surprise.

I never said Fev I said Leigh, funny how you are slagging fev as flat cappers yet they back you over Toronto, 3 Australian states....I dont want it comfined on the M62, never said I did I dont think, go and find my post that said I did and I will take it back. He was doing it for his own publicity, hes a multi billionaire but said he ran out of money, yeah ok.....How did Perez achieve it as you say? Has he brought in more money? (bearing in mind they ran out of it). I dont know how you think it has widened the sports appeal? All the good you think Toronto did has been undone with all its negative headlines but you want that brushed under the carpet. Clubs who have been doing it without the money from Sky but still making good signings during the pandemic instead of crying off like Toronto did but lets dismiss them as they arent a big city team.

Youd rather get rid off all the teams except Leeds, Hull, Salford, Wakefield and Catalans and replace them all with City teams?

My view is, a shame, but not surprising. Seems the majority of SL clubs felt like Lenagan, and voted against (but not Saints?). The project always looked dubious to me in the long term, and in the current covid climate, with the sport struggling for survival, it hardly comes as a shock.

Pretty much this.

I’d pick either London or Toulouse. London would have to find a proper ground first though.

That would be cool 2 holidays in France every season

It hadn’t crossed my mind

I said people wanting Fev in over Toronto.

He was doing it for the love of the sport, as quoted many times. I said it was mis managed (by Argyle)

10,000 new fans in Toronto at games. Championship games as well. Mass upset in Toronto about the situation from Toronto residents. But yeah they haven’t widened the appeal.

I haven’t brushed anything under the carpet. They were mis managed, I even said they ran before they could walk.

Salford have been deducted 6pts for financial mis management. Hull KR have dropped out the league. Catalans refusing to relocate. Saints refusing to travel. Yet what is all this met with? Barely a slap on the wrists.

Yes. I’d have Wakefield thrown out on their heels. How many years have they been promising a new stadium? How many years have they been borderline laughable? Cas had a mini revival but have gone down the pan too. The same applies to them. Embarrassing stadiums and offer next to nothing to the sport. So yes if it came down to it I’d have rid of those perpetual under performers, over promisers and under deliverers and bring in those who offer promise and growth. Other than a nice stadium, a good coach and a few odd surprises (making 2 finals), I struggle to see what Salford offer. You won’t find me calling for Leeds, Catalans or Hull to go and to suggest so is a bit silly.

In short, get rid of these clubs who are happy being mediocre and never do anything to grow themselves or the sport. They’re the problem.

The other massive issue I have is how these clubs even had a vote. It’s a bit rich them voting down Toronto when they’re so bloody poor themselves. This sport will never grow outside the M62 unless we are ruthless and demand high standards of performance, facilities and financial growth from our clubs. Standards that the likes of us, Saints, Leeds*, Warrington and Hull* consistently deliver. The RFL bizarrely drove down standards to give clubs like Wakey, Cas, KR and Salford a chance. Where has that got us? Nowhere.

Rid the RFL of its inept leaders. Rid SL of Elstone and bring in people who actually have a bit about them and want to grow our sport.

I honestly wished I liked football or RU. If I did, RL would be nothing more than an after thought to me. And if I (and many others) feel that way, why should anyone who is nothing more than a passive fan care one jot?

Edit: just to add, I’m not having a go at you. You have an opinion and I do, it just so happens they’re on the opposite ends of the scale. I’m really frustrated at how backward thinking we are as a sport whilst pretending we’re forward thinkers and innovative.

Hull KR havent dropped out of the league just stopped this week, they obviously knew the new structure was happening, same could be said for Salford and Saints as they both refused games this year. You said they voted Toronto out? why not they earned their places and they are the league, Toronto would have had a vote on someone else if they could have kept their house in order.

Licensing drove this and its something we agree on, I think its the best way to go, make sure clubs run an acadmey provide financial stability, Im still astounded Wakey dont spend the full cap and they are given full funding for it from SKY. Wakey and Cas should be omitted as they promised them grounds years ago and still never happened. Not many SL and ex SL clubs over this side of the pennines with poor facilities yet look over to the dark side and its littered with them.

Again I agree with the RFL, it should be be brought back together at the SL split has made things worse since the split really. Elstone is garbage.

We havent been innovative for 20 years and is a big bug bare of mine. When RU turned professional and did things right we sat back thinking we are ok and missed the train

As a fully professional sport I believe we are on borrowed time. That was before the pandemic.

Time some stopped living in a world of make belief and faced the reality about the strength of Rugby League in our country and indeed France since Rugby Union became fully professional in 1995.

The game needs to consolidate by forming bigger and stronger clubs in its own backyard of Europe before you can even consider new clubs in other continents!

to be fair I think club rugby in this country is close to popping with the debts run up

You've made a sensible post using your troll account mate

Exactly, and those who think that the game would ever kick off in Canada and the USA should ask themselves this question, what happens if it fails,

Another embarrassment for the RFL

You may class me as a troll, but at least, I live in a world of reality and not fantasy like some of here who cannot see the woods for the trees where the game today is concerned, especially with the rival code of Union getting all the limelight now.

Time they faced the fact that there is every possibility that the game with it's lack of finance and media coverage could end up back as a part time professional game like it was prior to Wigan becoming fully professional and the emergence of Super League.

If Sky pull the plug, like they have with Speedway and other minor sports, our game has got real problems and pipe dreams like having clubs in Canada and the USA are not going to solve it.

I had high hopes for Toronto, was looking forward to making the trip back in April (seeing my team play in Canada, take in Niagra Falls.... yes please), obviously it wasn't meant to be. I have had a feeling that our sport has been in a downward spiral for quite a few years now. Like you I felt SKY could pull the plug and the sport would be properly screwed, however SKY have seemed less and less interested in SL as each season passes.

I really thought that having Toronto in the competition (assumed they had sound financial backing) would have added something new to the SL, their crowds looked amazing on TV for Championship matches, a real buzz not seen since the early 2000's.
I thought SKY would latch onto this new interest which would reduce the risk of them 'pulling the plug'.

I've seen that SL clubs have voted for 12 clubs again next season. I bet SKY are rubbing their hands with excitement at the thought of Featherstone Rovers entering the competition.

Doomed.

I’ve slept on it and come up with the following;

If we are to expand in America it can’t be just an RFL thing, it has to be a joint enterprise between RFL, NRL and the IRFL (who ultimately should have the responsibility). Pump money in to the league (which has been up and running for nearly 20yrs), attract investors and innovators such as Perez. Sign players from Australia/England/France whilst also creating youth pathways for Americans. It’s a slow, methodical and lethargic process which ultimately could take 15-25years but that’s the only way we’ll get anywhere close to making ground in the USA.

I’ve been lamenting Toronto’s expulsion but I also said that it was not a long term option, that the ultimate aim has to be a pro American League. There’s already teams in Philadelphia, Jacksonville, Boston, Orlando, Washington, Los Angeles and Cleveland (or so I recall). Build on that, invest in it. That’s the only way we can sustain a professional league. The standard won’t be great and our top amateur teams would give them a hiding (I went over in 2011 and we hammered Jacksonville by 40 odd) but it would eventually come good.

Otherwise it’s pointless. SL can’t sustain long term a transatlantic side, never mind 2/3.

thought the league went bust last year in America?

If you were a supporter of Featherstone Rovers who were runners up to Toronto Wolfpack in the last played Championship Play Off Final of 2019 and the club were not promoted to the Super League, I don't you would be very happy about it.

As members of the Rugby Football League, they have as much right as any club including Wigan to be in the Super League.

they dont as the RFL and SL are seperate

if i were the Wolfpack owners I'd be fuming and on the phone to the lawyers asap. Any ideas if they have threatened legal action yet?

No they don’t

Perhaps you can explain why?

Toronto Wolfpack have only been voted out of Super League Europe by a democratic vote of the majority of the eleven other clubs.

It was obvious from their results prior to the lockdown in March that their squad was not up to the required standard in the Super League and also with the current financial situation of clubs due to the pandemic and the cost of travel and accommodation etc, that may be why the majority of clubs including Wigan voted them out.

Perhaps when things return to normal, their involvement in Super League Europe or the Championship/Division One can then be reconsidered.