But it's attitudes like yours that we need to change - State of Origin is meaningless if you choose to look at it that way. Only by hyping it up and making it an honour to be involved will we make it mean something - and we really need it to mean something because then you get the intensity of rep football and then you get a better England.

I'm fully behind it as a concept - we don't have the right level of rivalry across the pennines to have an origin series and some serious form of representative competition is vital to strengthening our game. I'm desperate for it to work and become a highly competitive three game series - Ethihad, Elland Road and Wembley would do me, and I foolishly assumed most other League fans felt the same way,

I think that's the reason they actually brought the concept in, they know about the increased salary cap and the fact the aussie lads are effectively giving up SOO and the Oz national team by coming here, they are trying to bring something in to attract them.
Now granted it's nothing major but it's something.

Dont be daft, this is the attitude of the Exiles players and I have been told as much by a couple of them. If you really think they could care less about it and are prepared to give 100%, play through the pain barrier etc for something that means absolutely nothing them then you are kidding yourself. State of Origin means something and they are representing something, not just a made up entity which means nothing. Just watch last years game and tell me that 1-17 on the Exiles were giving 100%.

Yes, but you go back 25 years and SoO was just a made up entity wasn't it? We have to make it mean something to all involved, and that's partly down to the RFL, partly to the players and partly down to us fans. If we can sell out the stadiums, and move to bigger stadia then the players will start to care a bit more. I don't care who you are, if we can make an Exiles game sell out the Etihad then any overseas player worth their salt would want to play in that game, and want to win it.

You seem almost like you'd be happy to see it fail, and I just don't understand that attitude.

NSW and Queensland are not made-up entities they actually mean something to Australians. The Exiles is a completely made up entity that doesn't represent anything, therefore people don't get excited by it, including the players.

You make an awful lot of assumptions. I would love the concept to be a success as you envisage but I am also a realist, whose opinion as partly been formed by the Exiles players that I have spoken to. Players will not put their careers and future at risk and/or jeapodise their season for a game that means nothing to them. This has already been shown by the withdrawls this season and the lack of effort last.

Also how are New South Wales and Queensland made up entities? Have you ever met a Queenslander and asked him what he thinks of NSW (Nothing to do with RL or State of Origin)? The State of Origin is much more like an international or say Wales v England at RU then the Exiles game. What does an Exile represent? Do you realy think they care less less about being one? There is simply no comparison no matter how much you would like it to be.

Lets look at the Exile team going forward. Lima, Carmont, Leuluai, Finch wont be available for the Exiles next year as they wont be here. They almost certainly wont be replaced by a similar calibre of import and in some cases no import at all. Other imports from other clubs are going back home and even this year the Exiles team have less quality players to choose from than last year with King, Buderus etc going home. With the new NRL TV deal and the exchange rate please tell me how the Exiles team and concept could possibly get stronger, it cannot it can only get weaker as good quality imports will no longer come here and with tightening quota rules the number of imports declines. It will be lucky last another 3 years imo.

the only way we will get top imports from NRL in the next few years is to pay them more than they can get in the NRL, that means paying at least twice the amount a UK based player would be on. This means we would have less cap left to pay home grown players which could then drive them away from the sport. We need to get more money into the game to be able to compete on a level playing field.

Just add a third game and

West England
East England
Exiles

WE v EX
EX v EE
WE v EE

The games then have something for the foreign guys and the WE & EE teams are used to assess which players should play for England in the main comp. You'll get more out the fans i would think too.
Winner is either the one that wins both their games or the highest agg score

You make some excellent points in that last paragraph. IMO the RFL took too long to implement an oversees "All Stars" game/series as the mid season international(s) for GB/England. It was often talked about but we kept persevering with games agaisnt France or Wales. The Exiles concept has now been introduced just as we are about to restrict the amount of oversees players a club can have. If we'd have introduced this a few years ago and had players like Barrett, Gidley, Lyon, Jones etc playing then it could easily have gathered momentum and turned in to a decent series.

As it is, as much as I want as many good English players in SL as possible, with the current quota rules plus the NRL salary cap increase, we are going to end up playing a team of journeymen, players at the end of their careers or who are simply not good enough for the NRL. On paper it was a decent idea but I fear it may end up just sort of petering out like the Lanc v York games did.

I don't know where this lack of effort by the Exiles theory in last year's match comes from. I went to the match and didn't notice any slackers, indeed they were going strong at the end and won it at the death.

Just to clarify, I merely said it sounded like you would be happy to see it fail, I'm happy to accept you want it to succeed, and I wasn't saying that Queensland and New South Wales were made up entities, and I think that was fairly clear. I was saying that prior to 1980 there was no such thing as State of Origin - that had to start somewhere and needed support in order to grow to what it has become. Yes, QLD and NSW had a ready made rivalry which made it easier, but my understanding is that not everybody thought the concept was worthwhile or would work, over time they were proven wrong.

Have you ever asked an Australian or Kiwi what they think of England? They're generally not big fans, so we do have a rivalry that we can build on, and if all else fails money talks. Chuck some cash from the RFL coffers at the Exiles representatives, five grand a man, ten if they win - you'd certainly see some effort put in then.

I haven't spoken to any of the Exile players so can't comment on what they might think of the idea, but one thing's pretty clear - if they're over here that means they're not playing SoO and they're not playing for Australia or New Zealand, so the Exiles game offers their only chance of Rep footy - we can make that mean something. I think it can work, but only if everyone pulls in the same direction.

But thats is the problem. It isn't serious preparation. It's another of Nigel Woods idiotic ideas.



I dream of us winning a series or the world cup v the Aussies as well but you won't get support for warm up games that take 9 players from one team. There was a limit of three last year and I am guessing were that limit still in place it would be hard to raise a team.

It's going to get even harder next season when Finch, Tommy and Lima are back home. I don't see anyone signing similar quality and as teams find it harder to attract overseas players as the NRL pulls away from us financially this concept will be dead and buried before many more games.



Well we aren't so that is a bit irrelevant.

How about England vs The Colonies? That might get their blood up...

The original NSW v Queensland series were based on current residence, rather than the player's origin. Hence NSW, having far more teams than Queensland, totally dominated the early years.

The series was then changed to Origin, and many players ended up playing for the opposite team than they had the year before. It made it a more even contest because Queensland had a better set of players, and this is when the contest really started to take off.

It needs time to get going over here as well, but as others have already said, if the quality of the Exiles-eligible players decreases over time, then we may already be seeing the beginning of the end. Glad I've got my tickets for this weekend!

What's with the inverted commas around the word injured? We know they are injured. Just ask the fans who were in France and saw these players with their injuries.

my god did you really miss the point there or what?
i would try and explain it to you but suspect it would be a waste of time!

perhaps some one other than his surgeon may be aware that he's having surgery, just a thought! (do you actually think before you post)

or perhaps his appointment came through by pure coincidence for the weekend of the exiles match??? who knows? just as plausible as your statement!

So it's just an unfortunate coincidence that the Warrington guy is unavailable, but the two Wigan players are obviously pulling a fast one.

Are Warrington the only club who can't arrange private operations as and when they want them, then?

The two Wigan players concerned are injured. Deal with it and get on with your life.

Didn't miss any point, the discussion was about wether tommy and Finch are injured and somebody brought up that it was devaluing the game by them not playing then somebody else (a wire fan of course) suggested that one of the tomkins brother may now defect to union due to a lack of an international game. My point was that there is an international game being played, Sam will be playing in it so surely by the afore mentioned wire fans philosophy that would mean he wouldn't want to defect as there are international games being played???

Clear enough???

Not if the correct patient confidentiality rules have been adhered to

I have just tweeted that I am having an op tomorrow and I've told several people that I am as well, it was very easy.............doesn't make it true though

Professional sportsmen don't tend to wait for appts, they have the priviledge of private treatment. When Westwood first did the injury he would have seen a specialist almost immediately and between the two of them it would have been decided if the op could wait or needed doing immediately. If the op would have needed doing immadiately it would have been done.

Actually the thread is about whether George and Finch are injured but using your logic there is no way of proving that - even though it is a fact.

It would be easier all round if you just admitted you was wrong and Westwood has had an operation.

It would be even easier if those who doubt the Wigan withdrawals are genuine but insist that the Warrington one is realise how one-eyed they look.

No-one is questioning whether or not Westwood has had or is having an operation. The point is, why was it booked for now when he should have been playing for England?