It's not just that though with Saints, they can bring all the youngsters through that they want but as proven this year with the experienced players getting older and picking up even more injuries it tells. Saints will struggle to replace the experienced players with the same quality and the youngsters IMO are only as good at the momet because of the quality they have around them. Same thing happened with us and it's going to happen to Saints, we know what's happening as we've seen the same thing happen at Wigan not so long ago.

I would love to see Saints fall like you have an start finishing 5th an below and there team to become weak, we might actually beat them then but I just can't see them going down hill that much, they need to keep Eastmond though he's key to there future.

But the big difference in Reserve league and Super league applies to every team, Saints included. But do Sam Tomkins, Lee Mossop, Sean Ainscough and Mark Flanagan look like they are struggling in Super League? Sean Ainscough scored 17 tries in 12 games, Lee Mossop got into a team that finished higher than us, Sam Tomkins was voted the best stand off in the league and Mark Flanagan was handed an opportunity to play in the NRL.

The fact that these Saints players that 'do well' in Super League played in the Reserves Grand Final and still got beat to a much younger Wigan side suggests to me that Wigan have the more exciting bunch coming through with far greater potential.

They've got somethin like 8 or 9 players over the age of 30, that isn't a good sign. They're going to need more than Easmond IMO. Pryce has been pretty average by his standards this year, and I think they will miss Long. Cunningham has only got another season left in him then it's only down to Wellens and Graham. Interesting times ahead at Saints but in the mean time I think there could be more success with Warrington and I don't think we'll be to far behind either, we're only a couple of key players short of being a top team. A better no.7 to partnership Sam and a nasty $hitouse prop, in the same mauld as Morley if I'm honest, hard to find I know but that's only what we're short of.

I said they have done well in SL but that doesn't mean the reserves will turn out the same its all about potential

Sean Ainscough is abit like Kevin Penny great scoring but needs to work on his game.

Wigan always bring good young players through but they are not always good seen as good enough an get shipped out, time will tell with this current group.

It's as simple as this, the better the youngster the more chance of them making at pro level, we have some of the best youngsters about therefore there far more likely to make it than those of the same age who aren't as good, yes they'll be odd exceptions but predominantly the better youngsters have a greater chance of making it to the top than the weaker one's.

I disagree. I don't know why Wigan fans are throwing the reserves GF around as if it was some kind of proof of anything because it isn't. Our lads could have just been knackered. They have had to play through injuries and because of injuries, just thrown in rather than graduated like Sam Tomkins. They will have suffered for it because the way they have been introduced to first grade has been nowhere near ideal. In fact, quite the opposite.

I would say that both Wigan and Saints are bringing through some talent at present and it would be great to see both teams' youngsters hit the spot as that would mean some cracking matches in the future and possibly some entertaining rugby at international level too. Personally I don't feel the need to say our team is better than your team but instead can happily acknowledge that we're both doing a good job in developing young talent, which is a very positive thing for the future of RL.

Well said mate, I hate the petty point scoring from all sides smells far too much like football to me.

I think both Wigan and Saints have some great talent coming through and I applaud both clubs for trying to develop it.

I'm not just throwing the Reserves Grand Final as the only reason. If you read my earlier post I gave numerous other reasons. I think both teams will have had to play through injuries. Wigan more so than others with Liam Farrell being ruled out for the season and numerous graduates into the First team have forced the club to play academy players in their place.(Ask Rogues for the numbers) No excuses really, you say they could have just been 'knackered' well they have played the exact same amount of games as any other teams. I would just accept the better team won and stop clinging to straws.



The argument was never really about whose side is better.(Although I believe the Wigan team is). It was justification of the success of the Wigan RL reserve team with a Dire fan, you took it upon yourself to comment. I too hope for more battles in the future seeing Wigan and Saints lads go for it and then join together to represent England and Lancashire.

Sam Tomkins, Lee Mossop, Mark Flanagan and Sean Ainscough are the reserves. I know we can't make any irrational assumptions that every player from that Reserves team will turn out the same but we can assume that we are doing something right to have had the success with the players mentioned.

It's not all about potential at all. It's about fulfilling your potential.



I think every player in the world of Rugby League can always work on their game. I have seen so called 'established' stars like Amos Roberts who has had well over 200 games in the NRL make the same mistakes Sean Ainscough has made but not near enough the creativity.



Under previous management I may have considered that a fair comment. But the new regime at Wigan has been soley focused around our young players. We haven't signed any players for next season, instead,we have chosen to promote from within. Our entire marketing campaign for Season Ticket renewals is based around the young lads at the club. We have used any space left over on the salary cap to reward our youngsters with long term contracts. Gone are the days when young lads aren't given an opportunity to show what they can do. If any players are to leave Wigan it will be through them not fulfilling their potential or lack of desire to make it at the top level and not through not being given the opportunity and going for the short fix with an Australian player which can only be good for the Wigan RL club and England.

Are you not expecting to sign anyone then? does that mean Ian Thornley, Josh Vievers, Ben Davies, Liam Farrell, Chris Tuson and Joe Mellor will get a chance next season ala Sam Tomkins and Mark Flanagan?

Bit of a risk if thats what your doing but can see why McGuire was chosen as its like what Melbourne did.

There's a possibility of other signings, Josh and Ben are possibly going out on loan to Wakefield. I'm pretty sure both Ian Thornley and Joe Mellor still qualify for the 18's so I don't think they're ready yet. Liam Farrell's a possibility though of seeing next season.

Afraid not. I will be very shocked if we do.

I think Josh Vievers and Ben Davies are going on loan to Wakefield.

Ian Thornley might get a chance but he still only 17. Same applies to Joe Mellor.

Expect to see the introduction of Liam Farrell and more from Lee Mossop, Sean Ainscough and co!

Lav' it when saints lose

gutted we wernt there, they have done better than us.

Had to laugh laste night, in Walkabout in town, the bloke behind us was cheering for stains then eastmond scored the first try, he was giving it some, then turned around when eastmond lined the kick up and said bloody hell he's taking the kick aswell, quality fan

,

You know something? I really don't care who won the reserves grand final! We won the academy grand final last year, seven of those players were signed up to our first team and played in the defeated reserves grand final this year. It means precisely nothing to win one of these grand finals but if you have to cling on to something then go ahead. I shall be waiting with baited breath to see which of your stars breaks through into the first team with success and which are let go due to the change in rules. Hopefully there will be enough good players stepping up for Wigan to stop signing Aussies all over the spot. However, if you're expecting a cohort of Sam Tomkins then you will be disappointed. It just doesn't work that way, regardless of whether they win reserves grand finals or not.

btw: obviously you were the better side on the day. You won convincingly!

It's because Eastmond has been missing kicks. Some of them from very close to the posts.

no mate, he did't have a clue about the game or the saints team overall, imo it was as though it was the first time he had ever seen a game .

Ah, I see.

I was sat next to some saints fans at the grand final and we had some good banter and a good chat and then as we got to the game they kept asking me what was going on



They also said it was their first game of the season so I asked if they lived far from St Helens and they live round the corner from the GPW



Shocking.

And of course all your fans are die hards, yes?

Correct.

In my 27 years supporting the club i've yet to meet a Wigan RL fan who has no understanding of the game at all.

Careful, you've nearly lost them. RL only started 14yrs ago.

What a stupid post. Are you saying that every single person in Wigan watches wigan?